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2004 Outback 3.0 H6 refusing to start


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29 replies to this topic

#1 Jenstheman

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:43 PM

It started with the alarm(Gemini)
- it had a immobilizer, connected to the starter! If not started after 30 seconds after unlocking the car, the immobilizer would kick in! And the starter would not work! And a lock/unlock would be necessary!
From one day to another, the alarm stopped working, and would not release the immobilizer! After 30 - 40 tries, I pulled off the +cable from the battery and replaced it!
Now the alarm worked fine! Immobilizer releasing the starter! But when I try to start the car nothing happens! The ignition and fan turns on and the starter tries to turn the engine over but it won't ignite or anything.
WTF is wrong

My subaru dealer is saying the ECU is dmaged and needs to be replaced!
I don't know why, but i dont agree! I can't figure out how this could have happened!
Please help me
/Jens

#2 CNY_Dave

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:27 PM

If you just pulled the (+) cable, waited, and then put it back on, that itself would not damage the ECU.

No sparks, no drama, no crossed cables?

 

 

If the immobilizer decided to do something bad, who knows.

 

Can you disconnect the immobilizer?



#3 Caboobaroo

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:21 PM

So, does it click when you try to start it? Does it actually spin the engine just doesn't crack off?

I just noticed you're in Sweden. Is it a second generation or third generation Outback? Different markets got different models in 2004 which is why I ask.

Just for grins, disconnect the black ( - ) cable from the battery for 30 second. Reconnect with the key off. Get in, turn key to "ON" but don't start it. Let the gauges sweep and leave it there for 10 seconds. Probably will hear some relays under the right side of the dash click during this. Then try and start it up!

Edited by Caboobaroo, 12 August 2013 - 08:27 PM.


#4 Jenstheman

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:49 PM

The immobilizer is removed from the car, so is the alarm! Problem is still there! It's a third generation, aut.gear! No sparks or drama, just a angry car! When I tried to get past the alarm the dashboard says
Er hc! If that helps!
I think the engine spins, at least I hear the starter going round and round, but nothing happens! I will try the black cable today

#5 Jenstheman

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:37 AM

It did not work with unhooking the -cable! The mechanic have managed to get a spark from it when trying to start with startgas! But only to backfire and not run

#6 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:04 AM

if you are certain the problem is not related to the security system. And, the use of starter fluid or other tests seem to indicate no/low fuel delivery, it may be worth the effort to remove the fuel pump assembly and look for a broken tab on the cap and/or swollen/failed o-ring. It's a known gen 2 problem here in the US.

but, as mentioned above, your model 04 may not be prone to that failure.

#7 ivans imports

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 10:17 AM

So the starter interlock / alarm starter kill curcit has a box marked keyless entry unit or somthing like that inside it is a set of switchs 3 or 4 of them in differnt positions actavates differnt things eg ig kill starter kill light on or off horn ect there is realy good info out there on how to set it up. Also i think if you try 3 times to start unsucsesfully will not let it start at all. On the six we used on race buggy there was one wire had to be hooked up to fool the alarm engine kill curcit or whould not run. also like tex said check feul preshure and confirm ig realy power up.



#8 Jenstheman

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:56 AM

I have fuel! We filled half a bottle from the return hose! We have spark,fuel but not at the right time! The car ran perfectly until the alarm(not original) went bananas! So the only thing I have done is 1.
1.unplug battery = car won't start.. Starter turns the engine
2. Remove alarm along with the immobilizer(note that the immobilized only prevented the starter to turn) but now with the alarm gone! The starter turns! But engine won't start

Ivan imports!! Where can I find this box you are talking about?

#9 Cougar

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:50 PM

If you haven't checked the fuses under the hood and in the dash yet I suggest you verify they are good using a test light probe. Fuses should also be checked first if there is a suspected electrical problem.



#10 Jenstheman

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:39 AM

All fuses are checked! Hard to explain this, The only thing not working is the injectors, or grounding for the injectors! All groundings and power is ok! Could it be a bad ecu after all? Fuel pressure is ok, ignition ok, but the injectors doesn't open up at all, or when they should! And the h6 doesn't have a timing belt it uses a chain, so I guess the timing is alright!! I can change the ecu, but if that is not the problem I'm still charged for it 1500$

#11 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:08 AM

really? good fuel flow?

possible cam position sensor. Or crank postition sensor but I THINK injectors are cut off if the cam sensor is bad.

any DTC//'check engine light' codes?

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 22 August 2013 - 07:33 AM.


#12 Jenstheman

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:49 AM

No values on cam sensor ok, but I do get error code P0604

#13 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:04 PM

seems like a good chance that's a bad ECU, also, wiring, connector or general electrical problems I guess (did the car ever suffer a severe issue with battery connections?, jump starting?, bad alternator? and flooding in the car? rodents damaging wires?)

check; http://www.datsc.com...ru/Default.aspx

http://engine-codes....604_subaru.html

http://www.rs25.com/...anywhere-2.html

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 14 August 2013 - 01:06 PM.


#14 Olnick

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:06 PM

Jens--check P0604 here: 

 

http://engine-codes.com/p0604.html

 

If you need a new ECU check into rebuilt/re-programmed units.  I put one in a friend's Lexus a while back and it worked perfectly for years--car was still running fine when she sold it. 



#15 Jenstheman

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:33 PM

I've searched everywhere for a used ECU and the one i need 22611AJ220 is not easy to find! In fact I can't find anyone! Is it possible to reprogram it?

#16 Cougar

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:58 PM

It seems odd this problem happened after the alarm system was worked on. That makes me tend to think that something else beside the ECU is causing the trouble but it could be the cause of the trouble. If just the injectors aren't working you should be able to spray some starter fluid into the air intake and start the engine.

 

If you do end up needing a ECU you should be able to find one at a salvage yard for a lot less money or get a rebuilt one for much less than new.



#17 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:56 PM

after a brief search, I did see a coupla posted ECUs that ship worldwide on ebay, did you try there?

a dealership may be able to at least confirm if the ECU is damaged, or just needs reprogramming.

also, I THINK there may be a couple availble thru this German site - do a search using the number 22611AJ220



http://www.autoteileplus.de/

#18 Jenstheman

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:21 PM

I do to see this as an odd coincidence! Thats why i'm here asking for help! The car has not started since this happend! We tried starter fluid but it just backfired! But everything else seems to be ok! All electric is measured and housings checked fuses checked it has fuel pressure and ignition! And connectors to ecu also checked! The only thing I see here that could make this go away is replacing the ecu! I will try and do this, swapping for a brand new one(I want warranty on this guy) and post here after! Thanks for all help, you are fantastic!

#19 Cougar

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:42 PM

If it backfired that could mean the timing chain has slipped position. You better check the compression. I doubt replacing the ECU is going to fix the trouble.



#20 Jenstheman

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:40 AM

How can it slip standing still on my driveway? Can it be sleek? The timings where ok when measured, why do I get error code p0406 from that? And what does "Er Hc" on display mean?

#21 ivans imports

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:32 AM

the control keyless entry mod might bo on older cars have you naroowed down the imoblizer wire on ecu ? and have you treid a noid light on injectors i have a cut down wire harness for 3.0 h6 could check specific wires if needed but dose sound like you may have damaged ecu I had one i ruined lost spark and feul but could see the burnt trace inside ecu have repiared some ecus but is very difacult because is so small inside



#22 Cougar

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:48 AM

I'm not sure how you measured the valve timing which I am refering to, not the ignition timing. The error code P0406 refers to a problem with the EGR valve circuit. The Hc error refers to a problem with the communications bus line circuit and that needs to be corrected. Here is a link for some info about it.

 

http://legacygt.com/...eani-62611.html



#23 kingbobdole

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:58 AM

Check the powers and grounds to the ecu, at the ecu. How did you go about "removing the immobilizer"? Are you talking about the factory one? I have the ez30d, so I'm not too savvy on newer stuff, but as far as I know, the immoblizer does allow starter operation, but will not run the injection. Sounds like botched wiring more then bad ecu.

#24 Jenstheman

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 02:36 PM

No factory immobilizer installerad exept transponder in keys(as far as i know, and Subaru factory people)
All keys to the car is reprogrammed whit codes from Subaru factory! This was my first thought, that the car forgot who it was!
groundings for ecu are measured, the removed one was a Gemini alarm system with connections only from ignition to starter! Everything is removed from the car!
Ivan imports!! No if there is a immobilized built in the car and I can unlock wire past or cut this I would like to know

#25 Cougar

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 03:16 PM

If you are sure there is no external control for the injector circuit and have made sure all power connections to the ECU are okay then replacing the ECU may be the next best thing to do. I would first verify the engine runs using starter fluid.






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