dslysenko Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Hey all! Owner of a 97 Legacy sedan here, been having some issues with it past couple of years (bad spark plug, bad alternator, sticking left caliper wearing my brakes down, faulty tstat causing my check engine light to come on with a "radiator fan function" code, and leaking lots of coolant and possibly a little oil...) and the latest one that is plaguing me could be the worst of the bunch. My AT oil temp light has flashed 16 times every time I've started it--I searched around here, followed a guide on how to diagnose it (http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/99-do-yourself-illustrated-guides/44383-199-2004-how-read-diagnostic-trouble-codes-dtcs.html) and got nothing (AT oil temp light stayed on without pulsating at all after I completed the last step). Took it to the shop as the past few days have been INCREDIBLY busy with regards to work and personal life and I can walk to the office, told the mechanics you can't use an OBDII reader for this and they basically couldn't find anything, said that for something like 20 starts (including one where they ran it ~25mph around the block) the AT light didn't flash as I described and they couldn't pull a code, then on the next start after that it did flash in that way. Now, probably not coincidentally, I believe that start when it finally flashed again, was the next start after they did a test drive in tight circles because I had told them I'd noticed my wheels slipping (rhythmic kind of jerking) when I cut the wheel all the way to one side to back out of/pull into a parking spot. Now I'm having my suspicions that the AT light and the jerking when cutting the wheel could be related. Especially since the AT light, as far as I know, is supposed to indicate that the computer noticed something faulty in the previous operation. When I throw a fuse into the FWD fuse slot, no FWD light comes on and the slipping continues to happen. I've seen some very knowledgeable people round these parts of the internet so I figured I would reach out to you all and see if you had any advice or have dealt with an issue like this before. Edited March 7, 2015 by dslysenko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawlerdan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 sounds like classic torque bind 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 C-Duty in the tail shaft. Search Torque bind, there are lots of good pictures and threads on changing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) If you need any help I'm down the road about an hour and a half in Tazewell County VA, I have experience with these cars and quite a few spare parts laying around. But definitely classic duty c failure. Edited March 7, 2015 by 86BRATMAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslysenko Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 Thanks all. Seems relatively straightforward. Now how much do you think it would run me to have a shop swap out the solenoid? I definitely don't have much equipment over here. (@86BRATMAN: might have to take you up on that...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 $600 +-$200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslysenko Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Not the best... hm. Now I've got a question: according to http://legacycentral.org/library/torquebind.htm , only the pre-95 models should have issues with the solenoid and 95-97 models will have a worn down rear trans housing that needs to be replaced. These are both >$500 repairs when dealing with a shop so I want to make sure I have the right one... would it still be more likely a faulty solenoid in a 97 legacy (i.e. probably manufactured in 96)? EDIT: Popped a spare fuse into the FWD fuse slot and no FWD light came on + slipping on tight turns persists... (tried with 15W and 30W) does that change anything? Before I found this out I figured I would change the AT fluid 3 times to see if that fixed it...now, not really sure what to do. Edited March 7, 2015 by dslysenko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If the solenoid has failed or is stuck, throwing in the FWD fuse will not help, as the solenoid must be powered (energized) in order to be in FWD. The fuse only sends a signal to the TCU to hold open the solenoid. Any model with a 4EAT can develop torque bind due to a failed Duty C solenoid. Not all will have leaking clutchpack assemblies. This also may be one of those few times you may want to give a dealer a shoutout as they would know what they are looking at better if it is the clutch pack pressure issue. It is one of those "while we are here" rebuild the unit, as torque bind can and does damage the clutchpack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslysenko Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 nipper: Thanks. Just to confirm, since FWD will not actually fire, the FWD light should also stay OFF with a duty C failure, correct? I'm suspicious that there could just be an electrical failure causing a bad connection somewhere along the circuit that contains the solenoid and the FWD fuse. Now, if the FWD light is on that same circuit then I'd be much less suspicious as a failed solenoid would presumably mean the circuit would stay open meaning the light should not go on. However, if the FWD light is triggered to turn on when it measures voltage being provided to the solenoid, then it probably should be on regardless of if FWD does engage, and I would have to be a lot more suspicious of an electrical failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 No the FWD light just tells you you closed the "switch" by inserting the FWD fuse. Terminology here, you are not "engagaing" FWD, but "disengaging" AWD. The dash light basically is a dumb light telling you there is a fuse in the FWD holder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslysenko Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 @nipper: Ok, yeah, sorry I wasn't being careful with the terminology. That plays into what I'm saying--FWD dash light is not turning on at all which leads me to believe that the connection there has gone bad somehow--maybe when we had some guys from Circuit City install a new battery. I do vaguely remember some wires hanging down to the left of the brake pedal, maybe something there got torn as well. The FWD dash light does not even come on when the car cycles through all the lights on startup. Nothing whatsoever between AT OIL TEMP and BRAKE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Or someone removed the FWD bulb knowing of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslysenko Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Interesting point. I looked at the wiring under my dash and this is what it looks like -- https://s3.amazonaws.com/pushbullet-uploads/ujDZcnjDgdM-1HOLIZGLfhG3Uw9FSz9G8KLkmH27urCe/IMG_20150308_120424:nopm:.jpg Does it look suspicious to you that the two green housings are disconnected (or the stripped disconnected wire behind them)? Or do the dash lights have nothing to do with those pieces of wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Nope they are only connected for dealer flashing of the ROM purposes. In fact if you connect them the car will run oddly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslysenko Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Figured as much. Now I did some voltage test around the FWD fuse slot. Without the fuse in I get 7.2 V on one contact and 0.01 V on the other. With the fuse in I get 0.01 V on both. I did notice that what seemed to be a ground wire somewhat near to the FWD fuse had been cut: https://s3.amazonaws.com/pushbullet-uploads/ujDZcnjDgdM-ZwiGNECyjBAoqpQhBy8EzblhpoLcFzSZ/IMG_20150308_182320.jpg This all still seems consistent with duty C failure, I am just trying to double, triple check to rule out electrical failure. The last thing I would want to do is swap out the solenoid and clutch pack and then find out it was electrical all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceramiclover Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 In a similar boat. I had torque bind until I put the fuse in. The FWD light stayed on for a week or so and is now out. I put the fuse in and see ground on both sides. Is this circuit ground-side controlled? Curious why the FWD light would stop coming on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.