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Legacy STi ?


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28 replies to this topic

#1 bmsmith

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 07:46 PM

Ok, we all know the new Legacy will arrive in the states around June 2004 and will offer the new 2.5L turbo. That's great. It looks awesome and finally some nice power to go with the looks.

But how about more power? A found this quick blurb in the Asian spy reports of Popular Mechanics magazine:
Legacy STi
It's about 1/2 way down the page.

Anyone know if this could arrive in the USA in 2006 or 2007? Any inside info at all?

I want the new Legacy, but if there will be an STi version the following year or two, I will wait for it.

- Brian

#2 Hocrest

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 07:54 PM

Another interesting tidbit from the article;

Versions without the STi performance equipment might be offered with a new diesel co-developed with Isuzu.



#3 calebz

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 11:58 PM

Someone actually posted a spy report of the STi legacy with pics a while back .. was a black wagon looked pretty cool.. Much cooler than the spy pics of the new outback that popped up on the new-gen board last wek

#4 Guest_lothar34_*

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 01:17 AM

I'm not sure that they're not talking about a Legacy B4 for the US. I thought there was supposed to be one coming that used the B11S concept's 3.0TT engine, but they say there that it's the 2.5.

I think the 3.0 would be a better starting point if you want 250hp.

#5 ringe

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 12:14 PM

I keep reading all sorts of mixed reports on the matter. Some say it will be a 3.0 tt, and others think it will be a 2.5 tt, or a 2.5 t. So, while I am sure the car will rock on with whatever combo they choose I ain't gonna hold my breathe as far as one engine to another.

#6 99obw

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 04:33 PM

Forget power, I want torque (and mileage!).

Come on diesel!

Despite all of the bad things I have heard, I am almost crazy enough to buy a VW TDI to get 50mpg. If subaru sold an AWD diesel in the US I would buy one for sure! I mean, with piston slap it already sounds like a diesel anyway, right! :lol:

#7 theotherskip

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 04:40 PM

i'm with you, 990bw. i've been temped to jump ship to the vw tdi, but would be interested to see what isuzu would put together for subaru. i've driven a bunch of different isuzu diesels and have been mostly impressed.

i'd be curious to see if subaru makes them try to make an opposed (boxer) diesel...

#8 Strakes

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 07:21 PM

Ditto! I'd love to buy a Subaru diesel. Hmmmm....an Isuzu-Subaru boxer diesel...that would be cool. The 2004 VW Passat has a 2.0 liter diesel available with 134HP and 247lb/ft of torque and mpg in the 40's. I'm sure with Isuzu's help, Subaru could do better.

#9 99obw

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 07:43 PM

I hope that other suby fans feel the same way so that subaru's market research leads them to release it here.

I have read that we are going to start seeing a lot more diesels here, especially after the sulfur content of the fuel is further reduced and the manufacturers can lower emissions even more.

The Jeep Liberty supposedly will soon be available with a diesel, but it will still be an ugly POS.

Now if they would release the diesel with a d/r tranny, I would forsake all other makes for the rest of my days, promise. I bet a lot of the old school guys would be pretty excited too.

We need to start a letter writing effort or something.

Come on diesel d/r suby!!!!!

Ok, I am getting too excited, I will shut up now.

#10 theotherskip

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 07:51 PM

with mileage being key for me, i am waiting for a diesel to be paried with a cvt (continually variable transmission). with a cvt, you can get better mileage than a manual, because you are keeping the motor at it's prime. you can place a relatively small diesel, then run it at it's peak power point to get going, then keep it at its peak efficency for crusing. i drove one of the civic hybrids with a cvt and was very impressed with what 90 hp (gas) and the electric boost motor paired with the cvt could do. i think subarus are to big and heavy for a hybrid to be very effective, but i think a diesel could do wonders...

#11 applegump

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 05:28 AM

If subaru does offer a diesel engine, I think Europe would be the first market for it. Some european countries have over 60% diesel cars!

#12 wrxsubaru

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:12 PM

I read a article about 4 months ago that said, subaru was making a disel, with Iszuu, and it would be a flat 4. The reason subaru was making this engine was for europe, to gain sales. Hope fully the engine would be offered in america seems like it would get decent sales.

#13 99obw

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:56 PM

GM gave diesel cars a very bad reputation a while back. Every person I mention my desire for a diesel car to says something like "I hope they do a better job than GM did." That may slow acceptance, though I tend to think suby owners are practical and open minded about their vehicles.

One unfortunate impression I get from the VW diesels is that they are very complex. The diesel's simplicity is what makes it so reliable. I hope subaru doesn't make a complicated mess out of it.

Another dissapointment in the VW's is the lack of a block heater. I guess one can be rigged on but it isn't straight forward. I would probably carry some ether with me in the winter just in case. What is the thing going to do when it is -20F, which it gets down to here 9 out of 10 winters. I have a heated garage at home, but not at work. VW's fuel heating system is pretty cool though. And of course, any practical over the road diesel needs a turbo.

I have always been impressed with diesels. My dad's '92 frieghtliner was so impressive when bobtailing (no trailer). He would skip gears (13 normally) and press me back in the seat like a race car. 1550 ft-lbs of torque will do that. When loaded it would get 6mpg at 80,000lbs GVW. They are probably better now. I think a diesel's power would be very satisfactory for most of the NA gas powered subaru owners. We aren't used to a lot of hp. Of course that will change with the new turbos.

I sincerely don't want VW to be my only diesel option.

#14 Strakes

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 09:30 AM

Has anyone driven a modern European issue turbo diesel? My uncle's turbo diesel mercedes M-class I drove in England had lots of pep. It accelerated just like a powerful gasoline engined car...according to my seat of the pants dyno. My guess is that it has something to do with proper gearing with the unique torque characteristics of the turbo diesel. Anyway, with the advances in diesel technology, you don't see or smell the soot, hear the diesel knock, and the engine pulls smooth and strong. GM's half-hearted attempt with diesels did a lot to deter their use in the US. The perception of diesels being weak, loud, and stinky runs pretty deep here.

#15 Martin

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 11:51 PM

That would be really cool if Subaru's were diesel, not enough cars in North America are. In Europe it's all diesel and all 5-speeds for the most part. VW passats are looking pretty cool, but I dont think they have combined the 4-motion (their awd system) with a diesel yet... sitting on a gold mine! I think everyone would like to have excellent fuel economy and 4wd. I saw some pretty sweet Skoda's when I was in Europe, and they had some turbo diesels with 4wd and 6 speed tranny... I wish I had one here! Europe is sooo much further ahead, when will North America realize that they need to start fixing all these emission problems before it's way too late and gas prices are stupidly high.

#16 HB_Dad

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 04:01 PM

I would NEVER want a diesel due to the fact diesel stations are nowhere near as plentiful as regular gas stations, at least here in California!

#17 99obw

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 04:04 PM

The VW TDI's get nearly 800 miles to a tank, so that makes it much less of an issue.

I doubt that diesel is really that hard to find, you just need to be familiar with where to find it.

Living in a rural area I find diesel is readily available.

#18 applegump

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 04:57 PM

Strales; Actually, under full accleration you DEFINATELY CAN see black soot and smell modern diesels, also when starting cold.(except maybe diesels with particulate filters) About the knocking, it depends on the engine, at cold starts and at idle it is most obvious but aûnder load no problemo :-) . Strong and smooth acceleration is accurate of modern diesels though.

PS One problem of diesel engines in cars in the US is the high sulphur content. Diesel particulate filter equipped cars need sulphur free diesel or ultra low sulphur (<50 ppm if Im not mistaken) which currently isn't available in the US but universal in the UK.

#19 ringe

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Posted 12 September 2003 - 11:34 AM

Originally posted by HB_Dad
I would NEVER want a diesel due to the fact diesel stations are nowhere near as plentiful as regular gas stations, at least here in California!



If you live near an interstate highway it should be a piece of cake finding diesel. Since lots of trucks frequent the interstate, and need diesel, it should be available at nearly every pump station you can find along the way.

#20 Dante

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 04:52 PM

I just found a related article. Please forgive me if someone already posted a link I did not see it.

Saab Faces Tough Future Within GM

Lutz says. “We're not ready to announce anything yet, but its fair to say we're encouraging cooperation between Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru) and Saab.” This is a reference to the new Impreza based 9-2.

Saab insiders say they are looking at using the next-generation Subaru Impreza platform to develop a new small car for Europe. The problem is Subaru doesn't make diesel versions.

"The boxer engines (Subaru's horizontally-opposed fours and sixes) are stumbling blocks," says Lutz. "Nobody has yet done a boxer diesel. There isn't one in our portfolio."

However, engineering sources says Saab and Subaru are seriously looking to develop a diesel boxer for the so-called Saab 9-1 and the next-generation Impreza.


#21 crazyeric

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 05:30 PM

most major gas stations have at least ONE diesel pump

#22 DerFahrer

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 12:05 AM

I would be interested in a Scooby diesel. Think about it: The boxer engine already has more suable torque than inline engines (don't believe me? get a brand-new camry 4cyl :brolleye: )and then making it a diesel??? That would put SUPER torque down!!

The Legacy will probably come here with a EJ25T in between the Forester/Baja Turbo and the STi, probly somewhere around 250 hp... The B4 designation is still sketchy though...

#23 Dante

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 12:40 PM

My daily driver is a VW TDI. I would trade it for a TDI Forester in a heartbeat. Even with the taller profile and increased frontal area, I bet it would average 40 mpg or better. Add a dual range tranny and I'd be in heaven ;)

With modifications (chip, larger injector nozzles and/or larger injector pump plungers some of the TDI guys are getting close to 200 hp and well over 200 lb. ft. torque out of a 1.8 liter four cylinder that hhas 90 hp and 155 lb. ft. torque stock. Check out TDI Power Enhancements. If the previous poster is right a boxer would have even more potential.

#24 alias20035

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 12:05 AM

Not only do boxer engines have a better torque curve which would be wonderful for diesel, they also have at least three other advantages:

1. boxer engines are strong because the crankshaft bearing cap is the other half of the engine case. This should permit Subaru to produce an light aluminum diesel engine, which few other manufacturers have attempted.

2. boxer engines have short crankshafts that can be much stronger than those in inline fours

3. diesel's tend to vibrate at low RPM (idle) due to unequal combustion between cylinders, and the boxer's punch, counter-punch action should reduce vibration.

I came across a few pages which detail a Scottish Yoke engine that was built from Subaru and custom components and installed in in an Australian Subaru Liberty.

A Scottish Yoke engine is a type of horizontally opposed engine where the opposite cylinders are directly opposed to each other and a single connecting rod joins both opposing pistons.

http://www.isr.gov.a...n12/12yoke.html

http://www.autospeed...48/article.html

http://www.cmcpower....any/history.asp

Makes for interesting reading and apparentely Subaru is now involved in trying to bring the engine to market.

Now what I want:

Subaru Hybrid with a diesel H4 Scottish Yoke engine with electric motor/generator between engine and transmission (like the Honda and Toyota hybrids) and instead of a driveshaft to the rear wheels, an electric motor/generator to propel the rear wheels. And add one of those new diesel exhaust particulate filters.....

#25 Skip

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 08:42 PM

Subaru does have a concept hybrid (gas electric) in a 2 seater non the less
What cha think?
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