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front end vibration (UPDATE 11-13)


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16 replies to this topic

#1 electryc_monk

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 03:25 PM

if the car has front end vibration and there is a definate harmonic to it then isn't this indicative of a tire or rim?

The mild vibration (and you have to be looking for it too) shows around 34-38 mph

the noticable vibration is initially at 70-74 mph and its wired to me for it *Feels* like its on the drivers side front wheel as the left side of the steering wheel is whats feels more noticable. Now on the drive down to Fort Worth to help a friend move on Sunday. the vib's seemed to dissapear going into any left turn as long as it was an actual turn or curve. The vibe would significantly lessen if it was a right hand turn but not dissapear totally like a left hand turn.

Here are the specifics of removing doubt for possible suggestions:
The halfhshaft are nearly pristine have about 5000 miles on them, no rips,tears or otherwise. no clicking or popping at all.
The castlenut is right snug in there and the pin is still inplace.
The back side of the hub looks like the passenger side so it doesn't "look" like its not fully squeezed into the hub...

The tires are under warranty via discount tire and just ohh two weeks ago i had them rotate and rebalance them after that round trip to Burning man back in august. (They did notice that one of the tires had lost a wieght but it was only an once so it should be fine.

I looked at the lower balljoints sunday, they look solid, and don't see any rips or tears in them, and felt tight.

(looks at Calebz) Do you remember anything from when we did the lift that made you think that these would need to be replaced I sure as heck can't remember if we talked about it or not.

As for alignment there is a slight pull to the left on the freeway but I'm talking gradual, and after about ohhh 3-4 football fields it crosses the striped line into the fast lane.

I got a sneaking suspision its probably the baljoint? and needing an alignment, maybe? I feel like there is something over looked.
Or maybe there is a barring that is on its last legs???? Maybe the playa dust got to the hubs???? It is an alkaline dust lakebed.

I honestly couldn't tell you if these are the original hub barrings or not. when i did the swap back in 2000, we used acid brushes and old toothbrushes to clean out the old grease. Then we used rubber gloves and purged new grease into the front barrings on both sides of each hub. When i replaced the half shafts i would clean the top layer off of the old grease and lay on a fresh dosage and cleaned and looked at the seals. very playable, clean and in good standing so I left them alone... i will go and seriously inspect them today and them if its different reply here with that data.

I'm sorry but, I'm feeling rather "not withit" lately as there is alot on my plate right now and its getting almost opressively heavy (metaphorically speaking). Thansk for your ptience and consideration.

[

#2 Guest_taprackready_*

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 03:51 PM

Even though a tire is balanced it can still be out of round. Slightly dangerous but doable is to put the sub up on jackstands (all fours). Start the car and put it in gear and let it idle. Now look at the spinning tire against a fixed point on the fender or suspension and look for high spots in the tire tread. If you find a high spot then that is the problem.

Take the rig back to the tire dealer and have them put the tire in question on the balance machine and have them see the problem. Could even be a delamination problem.

Bill

#3 RallyKeith

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 04:09 PM

How does the brake pedal feel? If the brake rotors are warped you would feel a pulsing in the pedal, and if warped enough you could feel that through the steering wheel at speed. Just a thought,

Keith

#4 electryc_monk

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 05:03 PM

rotors are just fine and dandy. no warpage at all, infact the pads are somewhere near 75% usable too and there is no need for them to be turned either. In fact i doubt these have been turned yet... still alot of meat on them.

hmmmmm as for the out of round issue..... that is very curious thinking. (scratches head in consideration)

#5 archemitis

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 05:45 PM

i went to change my bearings on the front this weekend, and noticed thy were in great shape. i checked my rotors with a dial indicator and they were .006. thats the limit, and they were making my car vibrate like crazy.

does it do ANYTHING at all differently or more emphasized when you hit the brakes.
theres not that much stuff it could be.

#6 electryc_monk

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 06:11 PM

its almost completely nullified when you hit the brakes. And by nullified i mean its a smooth brake pedal. The vibration stays in the wheel and disappears once you hit the brakes OR at least start a turn. I can't be 100% certain but I believe that it increased slightly a few times when i let off the gas while driving on the freeway. And a few more tidbits... (sorry i just remembered) by the time i got back up here there were a couple times i had to slow down fast and those were just fine.
The speed back up also had a couple times where the vibration occured thru a wider spectrum of speed starting as early as 65 and extended up to 78.

(The other wagon had a warped front disk so i do recently know what that feels like and this is different.)

#7 dneet

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 11:12 PM

I have had a lot of problems with "new rebuilt CV joints" some lasting less than 6 months. My last set I got from Raxles www.raxles.com. phone # 800-257-8192. Kind of spendy but all of the parts are new not rebuilt.
Hope that helps, Don.

#8 electryc_monk

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 04:55 PM

the half shafts are up tight against the hubs as necessary.

the castle nuts are on tight and pinned.

the suspension is all bolted solid, except I am wondering about the slight seperation I see with the lower balljoint and the hub. They are not "rubber boot" seated 100% and yet they appear tight up against the hub.

I guess that would be the first part to replace to see *IF* that helps?

I'm still curious as to the hub barrings and barring/races.
You know?

Hey DNEET - there isn't any bad juju with the halfshafts, they are still in nearly exxcellent repair. Even the most silent of sounds from a halfshaft are not detectible... of the bad and diing variety - i mean... but thanks for the link awareness nunthwless.

#9 electryc_monk

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 07:31 PM

after a drive to fort worth to the elliott reeder yard and back .....


was able to find a few things AND made it back just intime to drive into Discount tire for them to "Relook at it"

yup! Bent rim... Why the guy's didn't see it back then ... when i first took it in for the rebalance and rotaion. When I could of sworn that I told them of the vibration in the front.....

they did notice a slight cut into the sidewall of one of the other tires. but as it was still "within limits" it wouldn't get replaced just yet....

well after swaping out the spare and then sticking the bent rimmed tire (drivers side at that) in the storage place :>) its still amusing to see the reaction of the unknowing to the spares hidding place.

so tomorrow they will fix the cut tire and i'll be taking a spare rim with me to swap out the bent one obviously too!

yeah for all the back up advice and thoughts of help... and as a benifit the rotors are very nice as well as the half shafts.

#10 MilesFox

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Posted 14 November 2003 - 10:22 AM

sounds like it could be a wheel bearing. or at least like what my car is doing.

mine gets real bad at 70 mph, but at slower speeds its oonly there when having to hold the wheel slightly to the left to make up for road crown, with the noise being on the right. if i turn slightly to the right, it smoothes out.

it also goes away when i drive in the left lane on the highway(road crown)
but also my front axle is missing, running off rwed, so the bearing loadings may be different than fwd. the noise only started since the axle was broken

mine seems like a bearing, so yours could be the beginnings of a bad one. mine is pretty bad, its getting worse, i got about 1500 miles behind it, and i might be able to strtch another 2000 miles before i have to worry about the wheel falling off or locking up

"this is what happens when you drive on a bad wheel bearing" part 3 in a "this is what happens when you " series!

#11 Nug

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Posted 14 November 2003 - 10:27 AM

I'm currently working on a series of my own.
"This is what happens when you drive a 17 year old luxury car with no compression or oil pressure, with 300lbs of ballast in the trunk".
I'll keep everyone informed. I doubt anyone cares.

#12 MilesFox

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Posted 14 November 2003 - 10:31 AM

just dont let no one give you hell over it.

#13 Nug

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Posted 14 November 2003 - 10:35 AM

Well, it's too late for THAT:)

#14 junkyardgabe

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Posted 14 November 2003 - 08:57 PM

most bearings look good to the eye and feel alright but like what you described when you turned left or right its got to be a wheel bearing because the bearing is shifting into the proper place one way and out the other

#15 electryc_monk

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 02:31 PM

Miles 1st then Gabe... :>)

Miles after swapping out the "dented rim" on drivers front for good one and rebalancing the goood tire on good rim. And swaping out warrantty on sidewall cut tire on pass front good rim the car doesn't YET have the same symptoms of my initial problem. Granted I have only once had it up to 56 on the street for squeeze last night but iwill test it one this afternooon when i make a run to home despot!(wrygrin)

Gabe are you responding to Milefox or me :>) just curious thats all.

and snotrocket... yes i am curious about your outcome in due time too.

back to Milesfoxs inquiry: as for the wheel bearings to be replaced in the wagon's front end due to the "disappearance when in a turn" reference? going into a turn the vibration would subside (maybe I wasn't clear enough maybe I was) the vibrations in the front would not comepletely disappear they would just be so much lower that it was a "initial" feeling of no vibration.

when i did this last trip to fortworth and noting the speed at which the vibrations faded in and then the peaking of the vibration intensitiy and then lowered the faster i went there was no "fade out on the upper end. Well actually let me say I didn't feel comfortable going anyfaster then 83 or 84 and the vibration was still there like it was at 68 or 69. The peak was 72 to 74 mph on the drive south.

on the return drive it had a widened range or vibration.
the fade in was as low as 54 mph and the peak stayed at 72 - 73 but, the heavy peak area was from 69 to 75 and would then fade out a little faster when i got to 82 but it was still there.

thats why i sorta raced to the tire folks that afternoon.


so now I am VERY intrigued by the idea that i too maybe seeing wheel bearing decay.

ODD trivia note.. the vibration was so intense that the Air ride system would go into "flashing icon" moda and not pump anymore. I think I'll go out on a limb and guess that the sensors on the shock are just close enough that computer freaked out and wouldn't be able to keep up with the freq. of hitting the "upper max" relay and the "need air" fill relay. (smirks)

BTW Miles, dude i think I missed something completely from your posts... I have reread them a few times and I am not sure if you did the following or what... care to clarify for me when ou have time?

due to front end halft shaft worn out you made it RWD this is from disassembling the halfshafts and leaving the outter cup and its splinded shaft in the hub for the bears and brake to attach to correct? And did you like tape over the open cup end where the ballbearing knuckle part of the shaft slid back and forth in? or is it open to the elements as its already toasted?

and this works for the ability to have a stable front end?

I wonder about the rigidity of such a situation. Care to feed my curiosity?

The lower "a" arm thats actually a beam :>) with the trailing stabilizer bar that butts up to the body under the *dead pedal*? and the strut. and of course the antisway bar too.
I would of thought (Philosophical part of the question starts here)
that the drive shaft also adds to the stability of the front suspension and without the half shaft attached to the hub it wouldn't be as stable?

#16 TomRhere

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 05:13 PM

Been watching/reading this thread with interest, as my '82 has a variable vibration in it. Depends on what road, and what speed I'm driving at. I've replaced wheel bearings, tie-rod ends, and ball joints on both sides. Haven't done a tire rotation as yet, but will soon.
Did replace passengerside drive axle a while back, vibration lessened to a degree, but not alot. Thinking I got a bad rebuilt axle, as the noise while accelerating/turning is still there. Then again, thinking that maybe something further in maybe the problem, as in the stub axle bearing in the trans.
Don't like that idea at all.

#17 beauregaardhooligan

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 06:51 PM

An easy check is to rotate the tires.
DOJ(the inner CVjoint) can make weird vibrations that come and go.




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