Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Driving Test Results: Slow to Medium Speed Testings: ► First Slowly on the Parking Lot where I worked on the Swap; immediately I noticed that the Brake Pedal, which needed to travel pushed inward, almost 60% Before the Brakes started to stop the Car, Now it was Risen Up, and only needed 20% of Travel pushed inward, before starting to Stop the Car; That is Awesome! ► Also I noticed that the Rear Drums started to emit their usual braking Noise, earlier; I mean The Rear Shoes touches the Rotating Drums almost at the Same Time that Front Pads touches the Front Rotors; which with the smaller Master Cylinder, took much more Effort (Pedal Pressing) to "Hear that Braking Noise" coming from the Rear. ► Then I headed the Car to the Street, the Brake Pedal is not only Risen Up, but way more Firmer than it never was; also gained sensitiveness: Now I only need to Touch it with my Shoe, to slow down from 20 MPH, 30 MPH, and 40 MPH seamlessly. __________________________________________ Medium to High Speed Testings: ► To Slow Down from any Speed further than 40 MPH is as effective as on Slower Speeds, only touching the Pedal with regular effort do that well; but if you need to Slow Down Faster than the Average, then the Brake Pedal needs to be Pushed inward a little more with more leg effort. Here is where I noticed that the Pedal was more Stiff than it used to be / should be; the Braking Behaviour is really Awesome, the car brakes perfectly in a straight line; but the Brake Pedal is Harder than it was. ► Faster Braking from faster speeds: (lets say 60 MPH ~ 80 MPH) requires Even More Leg Effort to Push down the Stiff Brake Pedal, but is Doable; the Car Brakes Stable, Reduces speed pretty fast without locking the wheels, and still you have the around 40% of Pedal Travel Available; while with the Smaller Master Cylinder, for the same Braking Effort, the Brake Pedal would be about to touch the Floor... All that, along many, many miles of normal driving were done during Saturday. ___________________________________________ ► Panic Braking! Sunday's early Morning I went alone to a Solitary paved Road and I accelerated the Car to almost 80 MPH, then, being completely sure that no car was following me, I Floored the Brake Pedal like Mad ... It was Really Stiff, but I Locked the Four Wheels, but not completely locked; the car stopped with four screaming tires as it Should with such Panic Braking. But there is Something Wrong: it requires a Lot of Leg Strength to do that, and the Brake Pedal seemed to have still more Travel that won't go in ... you know, it was at Maximum Pressure, or the Calipers seemed to had some little more pressure left unused. I Repeated that Test, faster a couple of times, then even Faster (This time I was nervous and didn't check the Speedometer) and the Car Really Stops pretty Well, it even Locks the Four Wheels at the Same Time, I ended with the car stopped and completely wrapped onto a white cloud of smoke coming from the Hot Tires. I went down the Sephia to see the Brake Marks... perfect! ...but suddenly I noticed that there were some people looking at me with mouth wide open, like if I'm crazy ... I stopped in front of a Home! ... ... So I left the Place without taking Photos of the Braking Marks. __________________________________________ Conclusion: ► Yes, the Sephia Needs a Bigger Master Cylinder for Sure, but ... ► No, it don't need to be 1" ... It should work Better with 15/16" Despite that, I don't consider the KiaStein to be Dangerous, somehow even I feel more confident to Drive a Car that has a Taller & Stronger Responsive Brake Pedal, Rather than a Lower & Spongy unsensitive Brake Pedal for Sure. So, as I'm tight on Money now; I will switch cars with my Wife until I could buy online the Sportage's 15/16" Master Cylinder with elongated Push Rod, meanwhile I'll drive the KiaStein, and let her drive my "BumbleBeast", as the Subaru has a Soft Pedal with Stronger four wheel Disc Brakes which never gave me a single problem in all these past three decades. Kind Regards.

I must say, that I did this "Master Cylinder Transplant" without adjusting the Rear Drum Brake's Shoes, so they were a little loose as every other Sephia usually is always; so the average Sephia owner, which usually drives with deregulated rear brakes, could be aware on How this transplant affects the Overal Braking Behaviour. The whole "Master Cylinder Transplant" job, took me the Saturday's Morning only to be finished, so I had all the Afternoon & Night to do the Braking Tests; plus all the Sunday to come. After the install works concluded; I Started to do the Driving Tests on the Sephia. Remember, the Sephia is Still on its original Configuration of Front Discs / Rear Drums, and does Not have ABS brakes; just "plain jane" Brakes. All that tests where done by me alone, and I drove across the Big City, on Speedways, Unpaved Roads, Hard Traffic and Traffic Jams, etc... on Different driving Speeds and Conditions; the car acted excellent, I did many errands, such like giving back to my friend the especial tool to make the flared ends at the brake lines; then I went to WalMart to buy Groceries, went to Napa to buy a Brand New Air Filter and went to PriceSmart, to buy some things for my parents... I drove all Saturday's Afternoon and when Night times came; I decided that the car was Safe Enough to take out my Family to a Huge Shoppin' Mall; where my Little Daughter loves to play at their "Playland Park" for Children, and have a little family dinner out. The "KiaStein" with the Bigger Master Cylinder felt Awesome: No More Spongy Brakes! During Sunday's early Morning, I went completely alone to do the "High Speed Braking Tests", after those were completed, during the afternoon I went with my Family in the "KiaStein" to a small mountain's top village, named "Santa Lucia" testing the Sephia on a family trip on road / offroad.

I forgot to say that I installed the Plastic Reservoir Tank, from the Sephia's Master Cylinder, onto the Sportage's Master Cylinder; it fits Perfect; there are seven centimetres between each opening on both Master Cylinders. Tip: To avoid Air getting onto the Brake lines, once the Master Cylinder is already fixed in its position, you fill the Plastic Reservoir tank with brake Fluid and ask some friend to Pump the Pedal, while you close both outlets with your Fingers; (I asked my Wife to do that) then, once there is Pressurised Brake fluid coming out from the Master Cylinder, ask to your friend to leave the Brake Pedal pressed. Then you quickly remove one finger from one outlet, and put the Brake Line's fitting on it, as fast as you can, to avoid brake fluid spillage. Repeat procedure with the other Brake line and then, once both lines are correctly plugged, use the proper tool to tighten them well; finally ask to your friend to Release the Brake Pedal. That makes the Master Cylinder to "Suck Out" all the Air that could get inside the Brake Lines when they were open, and you won't need to Bleed the Brakes after the Master Cylinder install. That idea has been working Flawlessly for me for Decades.

This is How everything ended together, already mounted in the Car: It looks Wet, because I washed out everything with Water, once finished, to avoid ruining the paintings around with the Brake Fluid that was Spilled.

The First Line: Both Lines done: Of course I cleansed everything, prior to Screw the fittings in the Master Cylinder.

So I cut the ends on the Sephia's Brake lines, in order to Slide out the Original Fittings, then I slided in the New Fittings, and using the Tool I borrowed from my Friend, I was able to make new Flared ends at each Brake Line; as you can see:

Here you can see how I tested the Sportage's Master Cylinder, onto the Sephia's Brake Booster: Perfect Fit! ... ... Now I only needed to Change the Fittings on the Brake Lines.

I Removed the Plastic Reservoir Tank from the Sephia's Master Cylinder. Here you can see Both Master Cylinders Together: So, I washed out Clean with Soap, and lots of water, the Plastic tank: And let it dry at the Sun, also I cleansed around the Brake Booster's opening.

I had to work under deep blue, cloudless skies and a shiny Sun this whole weekend, 100º F No Shade tree for me ... Here's the Old Sephia's Master Cylinder out from the Car: This is how the Brake Booster looked like then: Few surface rust, nothing dangerous.

The Brand New Kia Sportage's Master Cylinder: The Brand New Fittings for the Sephia's Brake Lines:

Long Story Short: Very Kindly, he gave me his especial "Employee" Discount in order to let me Buy very Cheap, the Original Kia Sportage Master Cylinder and do my Driving Tests with a Brand New Master Cylinder... I decided that it was very good idea, because a New part will always be better than a used one that might be worn, So, I Purchased that Sportage's Master Cylinder, and went immediately to buy a couple of Fittings to install it properly on the Sephia's brake lines. After some hours and many especialized stores, sadly I never found the proper adaptors for the different fitting seats; so I ended purchasing two brand new fittings, and I borrowed from a mechanic friend, a tool to make the flared ends at each brake line, in order to fit the New Master Cylinder. That means that I would have to Cut the Brake line's seats and remove the original fittings for the Flared seats, then place the new fittings for the inverted flared seats, and using the above mentioned tool to create flared ends at each brake line. That leads me to a Point of No Return: To do the Adaptation or Not, that was my Dilemma... but with everything ready on the car, and the whole weekend programmed only for doing this... I did it!

Yes, Blueish lights are Bad idea, especially if you drive during rainy nights... Much Better! ... But somehow looks like they're mounted Backwards? Kind Regards.

So, I started this Saturday's early morning, and went asking to the Local Kia Dealer for the Backing Plates (Dust covers) I ordered for the Rear Disc Brakes Swap, more than a Month ago ... they still don't know the date that they will arrive here, but they will come, someday... Also, one more time I asked to the Kia Dealer's Salesman for the Sportage's 15/16" Master Cylinder featuring the elongated push rod, like the Sephia, and once again he showed me the 1" master cylinder he has with that feature and same measurements than the Sephia's one. So, I decided to tell him about my Rear Disc Brakes' Swap project and the three things I found to be the Culprit on the Weak Brakes of the Second gen Sephia; the Kia Dealer's Manager came as well and heard all my Story... and asked me for the web page where I posted everything, so I gave him this URL and he went to pick up his Tablet PC at his office...

Well, as I promised, here comes the Updates with the Results. After four months searching locally for a suitable Master Cylinder replacement in 15/16" size with no avail, I chose to try the 1" master cylinder, with the idea that if it doesn't perform well, I could use it short time, until I could order the 15/16" version online. But worth try the 1" master cylinder anyway, otherwise I'll live with the doubt of whether it could have worked well, or not.

I forgot to write, that the Idea is to Change the Master Cylinder, some time BEFORE doing the Rear Disc Brakes' swap, in order to do many driving test, to properly establish if it improves the overal braking behaviour of the Car, or notice if the Brakes performs even worse, or if is a Braking performance gain, if any; and how much; at the Brake Pedals, at the Wheels, if the wheels Lock easier or never... etc... Everything should be Properly Tested in Many different ways, with car Loaded and unloaded, at normal speeds, faster, slower, braking in Curves, Panic Braking, normal Braking, slow braking, etc, etc, etc... and then I will report the results here. Finally after all that, I will take a desition, if it is worth to Keep the Bigger bore master cylinder or the Smaller one, Prior to do the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap. If I do the Rear Disc brakes' Swap first, I will never be able to notice the True Difference that a Different Master Cylinder could make in the overall braking performance of the Sephia, that is why I will try the Master Cylinder change, first. Wish me Luck! Kind Regards.

My plan is to dedicate this whole weekend, starting early tomorrow, to do all this list: ► Search for the Increased Bore Master Cylinder, ► Obtaining it, ► Buy some Adaptors for the Brake Lines to fit the Master Cyl. Outputs, ► Or, in case I could not get Adaptors, buy the upper Brake Lines from a Junk Yard, and Modify them, changing the fittings to the appropiate ones. ► Remove the Old Master Cylinder. ( obviously ), ► Install the other one with bigger bore size, ► Either put the Adaptors on the Brake Lines or Change the upper Lines to the Modified ones. ► Pour Brake Fluid... another obvious step, isn't it? ► Bleed the System... ...and: Having Fun with the Driving Tests!!! I Hope in God that this will going to be alright, I've been measuring, researching, remeasuring once again, investigating, taking photos, etc, etc, etc... for long time enough to be somehow expecting good results; but as I always say: "the man proposes and God disposes"; That's why I always leave everything in the hands of my dear father, God. I'll post the Results, as soon as possible. Best regards.

I've been searching for more than four months actively among local Car Pars' Stores for that elusive 15/16" Master Cylinder, either from Spectra or Sportage with no avail. They offer to me, the stock 7/8" or two different Master Cylinders for Sportages, one is 15/16" but the design of the push rod is very different and will never fit onto the Sephia's Brake Booster safely; the other two options has 1" bore. Among these last two versions of the Sportage's 1" Master Cylinder, one of them also has the different push rod design like the 15/16" has, and the other is the one in the Photo I posted above, which fits the Sephia's booster exactly like the Stock Master Cylinder does. I know that the size of the master cylinder bore directly affects braking force and pedal feel, also I know that it seems to be pretty Big for the application to go straight from 7/8" to 1" without trying the intermediate 15/16" size, and the 1" might lead to a very Hard brake Pedal and / or to loose a certain percentage of the Braking Power. Despite that, local friends who are mechanics, told me that if I could, it worth Try to fit the 1" Master Cylinder to do a "Real Life Driving Tests" ... What they mean is that if I could grab a cheap, suitable 1" Master Cyl from a Junk Yard, only to do Tests driving the Car in a Safe Area, pushing the Brakes to the Maximum at Different Speeds and Trying it at average driving conditions, such as Cruising, parking lot Maneuvering, Street Driving, etc... in order to be Really Sure if it will be alright to increase the 7/8" to 1" without being Dangerous, nor having a too stiff brake Pedal. I agree that it worth try, let me explain why - each coin has Two Sides: In one side: The Sephia's brake pedal always has been very Spongy and it takes to be pushed around two inches or more in order to start stopping the car; also, the Sephia's Brake Pedal has a very Long movement, and it Never has been sensitive, as the rest of the cars on same segment are, in fact it is Not sensitive at all. The only -few- days I could have a Less Spongy (means Stronger) & Taller Brake Pedal, but still without being sensitive at all, are during the first two weeks after I adjust the Brake Shoes at the Rear Drums; but that only moves the point where the pedal starts to brake, one inch or a little bit more Up, and That's it. In the other side: As I stated above, the Sephia's brake pedal has a very long movement, also both master cylinders ( the 7/8" from the Sephia, and the 1" from the Sportage) has pretty close Push Rod measurements, almost identical, but seems like the Brake Pedal Run on the Sportage, is a little less than the Sephia... but I am not completely Sure of that statement since it was told to me by a Friend Mechanic. So if all that is True, the longer brake pedal movement on the Sephia, might compensate somehow, the stiffer action that an increased bore sized Master Cylinder could give, and if the 1" works well, it might be the Solution for the Spongy Pedal and -maybe- the Lack of sensitiveness on it. Or, it could could be a complete Mistake to do such swap, and the Brake Pedal could end being too stiif and / or loosing Brake Power. Seems like the only way to know if it Works or Not, and if it worth it or not; is to Try it out and do "Real Life Driving Tests" So, I hope I could obtain one of those 1" Master Cylinders, and the appropiate Fitting adaptors to safely plug the Sephia's Brake Lines to it, and I will report back the Results in the most Honest way I could. Kind Regards.

I posted a whole New Thread at the Off-Topic Forums' area, asking advice about the use of a Bigger Bore Sized Master Cylinder. I wrote there since seems like nobody cares about this thread ... so I hope to get Help, advice, etc if I post my non-Subaru questions there... I posted that thread since april first, but seems like it did not passed the Moderator's approval, and I am alone with this ... ... once again. So, to all of the lurking people who silently reads here: wish me Luck! Kind Regards. ____________________________________________________________ Edit: Said thread appeared viewable to the public after twelve days... here is the Link: ~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/145461-increasing-master-cylinder-size-help-me-to-decide/ Kind Regards.

I could either buy some Adaptors for the Brake Lines to fit the Master Cyl. Outputs, Or, in case I could not get Adaptors, buy the upper Brake Lines from a Junk Yard, and Modify them, changing the fittings to the appropiate ones.

I hope you'll enjoy it! Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any question. Kind Regards.

Thank you! I Agree, also that is what I originally did to find a Suitable Replacement. Basically, because I don't liked the idea of have a 180º turn on a steel cables; I prefer them to be as Straight as Possible, in order to have the Best direct force relation between the Handle Lever and the Calipers' Levers, otherwise I believe that some effort is lost on the curve, and also such curvature could lead to premature wear to the Cable's wrapping, but not too severe, as the parking brake cables doesn't move all the time... maybe it is a matter of personal preferences only. Yep! Kind Regards.

I do not agree with that Statement, because the Easiest way is to Read my Writeup on the Subject, which is plenty of Photos and step by step explanations on the procedures, parts used, etc... The rear Honda Calipers are intended to have Rear Parkin' Brake only, not extra braking power. But also you can have two levers, keeping the front parking brake, for severe offroad use, as a diff lock of some sort. Here is my Writeup: ~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/129779-the-definitive-rear-e-brake-retrofit-solution/ Kind Regards.

Sad, because even having Facebook, I can't access, because they didn't have me as Friend. I believe that this thread should be Moved to the Off-Topic Forums, isn't it? Kind Regards.

So, you want to do a Weber Swap onto a Justy? Great! ... But it is the J10 (1.0L) engine or J12 (1.2L) engine? Maybe the Weber could be too Big for it... not only jettings, which might be changed anyway; I mean the overall Carb + Adapter + Air Filter tallness; maybe it would hit the Hood... I'm not Sure. The answer to your Question depends on this: If the Hitachi Carburator on your Justy's engine... ► Has the Same Base than the one on the Subaru EA81 engines, No Problem: you could obtain a Single Plate adapter; usually Redline Weber does them. ► Has the Same Base than the one on the Subaru EA82 engines, No Problem, you could use the two plate adaptor from Redline, or the taller Single Plate adaptor from Trans-Dapt, as I wrote on the Link posted above, with photos of both adaptors. ► If base doesn't match, no problem either :Dyou can weld the adapter you want there. Two Generations of the Subaru Justy, being REAL Subarus, were sold in Honduras, the first gen came J10 and Squarier, the Second Gen came with Rounded corners and J12, last ones were EFi, but I have not much mechanical experience with Justys, I've seen them, even posted photos of Honduran EFi Justys with LADM (Latin American Domestic Market) specs, as seems like USDM never got their EFi versions... ...by the way, the Third gen Justy is a Geo Metro, the Fourth gen Justy, is a Suzuki ignis 4WD, and the actual fifth Gen Justy, is a Daihatsu Sirion... (Photos & info on the Legendary "Strange & Weird Subaru Stuff" Thread) Lets wait for another USMB member with better experience on Justys than me, to post additional information on the Weber Swap on them. Kind Regards.