daeron

I talk too much; many of my posts are longer than needed. I didn't waste any time (mine in typing, or anyone else's in reading) by saying any more.. I have been experimenting with brevity. My only point was the filter itself. I was knocking the K&N for our car, not the filter box modification; I am all FOR that. The stock filter is MORE than adequate for anything a 4 banger under 2 liters can make; its adequate for a 150-170 hp 3 liter V6. (300ZX uses same filter, look it up next time your in the parts store) Thanks, Tom, for making my statement clearer.. I should have put more emphasis on the fact that I only meant my comment to apply to the filter element itself, not the airbox/filter assembly as a whole.

still laughing.... Oregon Trail

tell that man to grow a beard... and mullet vs ponytail, ponytail FTW!!! Okay, so you cant see my ponytail for the carbon on the hood.. thats clean now, for the record..

I idled in my driveway until the engine came up to operating temperature, then gave it a good spirited drive around the neighborhood, BEFORE i checked ANYTHING With the O2 sensor. I have no way of knowing what temp it was at, but the car was fully warmed up before I even started the drive. thanks for the bench test procedure, I will try that before I buy anything, and base my decision off of that.. that ALSO lets me "test" the JY O2 before it goes into the car. Anyone else want to sound off, feel free... i doubt I will have a chance to work on this until tomorrow.. household projects to be dealt with, too.

http://www.ch601.org/engines.htm that page has a link to a partial 89 FSM, but its something..

Yes, I get 0.21 volts from the ECU with the engine off OR on.. According to the FSM flowchart, it is time for me to "Replace O2 Sensor (already dont with questionable junkyard unit) or replace control unit. My query was regarding the O2 sensor ITSELF, heated up, and unplugged from the ECU lead. I was under the impression, based on the page here excerpted from the FSM (and other reading I have done) that the O2 itself should be generating a few tenths of a volt by its own catalytic action inside there.. "Examination of the oxygen concentration in the exhaust gas makes it possible to show whether the air/fuel ratio is leaner or richer than the stoichiometric ratio. The O2 sensor has a zirconia tube (ceramic) which generates voltage if there is a difference in the oxygen concentration between the inside and the outside of the tube. Platinum is coated on the inside and outside of the zirconia tube for the purpose of catalysis and electrode provision. The hexagon screw on the outside is grounded to the exhaust pip, and the inside is connected to the SPFI control unit through the harness." It then has a diagram showing a cutaway view of the sensor, and indicates a large, circled V in between the ground, and the center of the tube. It also has a handy-dandy little graph of the function of the O2 sensor, indicating low voltage at lean ration, and high voltage at rich ratio... SO I am taking ALL of that to mean that YES, I should be seeing SOME sort of voltage down there between ground and the conductor of my unplugged O2 sensor.... Which means that the damn RX-7 sensor my dad gave me was BUNK. I shoulda known, my brother said that thing always ran rich.... So what about the junkyard O2 sensor? anyone want to warn me away from trying that first?? if it works, then I will replace it with a new one at earliest possibility.... but I HATE to get it and have it NOT work... Any chance someone could check the output of their O2 sensor after a good spirited drive, with the sensor unplugged from the harness? just leave the engine running, the voltage measured is unimportant.. I just want to know IF you get a voltage off of it...

Is she Rosy the Riveter, or Cindy The Circuitmaker? I have to know, is your husband a geek?? because you are PRIME geek-wife material....

Yah, I was just repeating what I had heard gloyale say in a previous post. listen to him, not me; I havent been there or done that. I was just tryin to help

so.... Does ANYBODY think that I likely have an issue that is NOT either the O2 sensor, or the ECU??? When I was "testing" the sensor yesterday, I tried unplugging it from the wire and checking voltage between the sensor and ground, independent of the ECU and got zero. I dont know if thats normal or not... *I* was under the impression that the catalytic action of the sensor generated voltage in and of itself, and by THAT knowledge this sensor isnt doing SQUAT. I am kind of agonizing through the decision here because I have nothing to spend on either, so I am going to HAVE to borrow money from someone (all my friends and family are almost as broke as me) to buy either an O2 sensor or that ECU... Thus far I see a couple options: One is to borrow $30, go to the junkyard, POCKET the O2 sensor out of the subaru thats there, come home and try it, and if THAT doesnt change anything, go back and buy the ECU. Another option would be to just try the ECU first, and risk the chance that the "new" ECU will not make a difference and I am just buying a "spare..." NOT a scenario I feel like finding myself in... Third would be to try buying a new O2 sensor, and be willing to take it back if it doesnt change anything (AND *if* I can pull THAT off) In any case, ~$30 is something I should be able to bum off of SOMEONE easily enough.. ~$60 (for new O2 AND ECU) would be MUCH more difficult. I hate to have to think of pocketing the O2 in the boneyard, but I really think that course might be my best bet.... Plus, I hate the idea of trying a junkyard O2 sensor in the car. That what I have in there already; replacing the fuel filter, or the FPR with junkyard parts is no big deal, but the O2 sensor is more like using a junkyard spark plug, or fuel filter.... So, does anyone think that my problem is likely to be anything OTHER than either the O2 or the ECU? AND, if everyone agrees that I am on the right track, what would be your next move given my options?

Then all you REALLY need is a test pipe. Also, your exhaust is different from mine; my Y pipe is solid, one piece from either cylinder head through the cat, and into a single pipe with a flanged fitting about a foot behind the cat. I have two inlets to my cat; one for either side of the engine. Basically all you REALLY need is a "test pipe;" a pipe to bolt into your exhaust in place of the catalytic converter... sometimes if you just go in with dimensions and an example of the flange, you can convince an exhaust shop to weld you up a pipe that you can take home and bolt on yourself; but technically this IS illegal. Deleting the catalytic converter is not technically legal anywhere in the US, but there are alot of places you can get away with it, especially on an old econobox that never goes fast

if the threads are stripped out, then supposedly you can tap it out to 7/16" thread of a similar pitch without drilling any further.. just work the tap in 1/4 turn at a time and back it out.. but thats just hearsay. there was a big long hotly debated thread about this that was last posted in oh, say a week or ten days ago. go find that and read it through for all your options. there were like 80 replies.

So the break is between the cat and the engine? and there is a flange in the way?? I take it it isnt in a good, straight section of pipe, huh? a VERY old skool "redneck" fix is to cut the top and bottom off of a soup can, cut along the length of the remaining cylinder so that you can spread it aparet, and slip it over the pipe. Then get two exhaust clamps and clamp the bugger on down.. BUT I am assuming youve got something in the way.. I would just go to a junkyard and pull a y-pipe. Take what you need to be able to retrofit it back onto your remaining exhaust system, and if needed, go pick up a clamp-on joint piece to get it all together. IIRC, there is a flange fitting a foot or two behind the exit of the cat.. so just unbolt there, and get the complete Y pipe/cat assembly back to that point.. Maybe paint it with some high temp spray paint before putting it on, if you really want to overdo something.. Or find an exhaust shop who can weld your stuff back together, like was mentioned above.

Hells bells, I thought we lost you!! Honestly, If I were you I would just go to a boneyard and pick up a y-pipe.. I am unclear where your exhaust snapped, though.. you say IN FRONT of the converter.. but then suggest getting everything from the Y pipe BACK.. if it snapped in front of the converter, then you should be able to unbolt the flange still on the "rest of your exhaust," unbolt the broken Y pipe from the heads, and just get a new Y pipe.. If it snapped behind the converter, then you can probably just get some patching pipe stuff at autozone or something like that to keep it together... Personally, on a non turbo car, I wouldnt spend $100 on exhaust for it unless the WHOLE thing has totally rotted away.. and THAT is with the mindset of "I want to run this engine for another several years." Given that you are trying to do the electric conversion, I would find scraps and junk for a nickel-and-dime budget and just "keep it working" until its obsolete... In short, it is pretty simple. Picture drain pipe plumbing; except theres no need to have any "vent" or "breather" (I don't know the term, the little holes in the top/front of your bathroom sink ) Just piece some pipes together and call it a day. Unless the damage WAS done in front of the cat, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing you can hurt; and if the break IS in front of the cat, then you MAY end up with some minimal exhaust leaking, which could throw your O2 sensor readings off... but thats a BIG "could."

Hmmm.. *I* left seafoam in my crankcase for about 3000 miles.. a full oil change cycle. I couldnt find any info here to contradict that with sea foam.. (people say change the ATF after a little while, but not seafoam or MMO) and the can certainly didnt say to drain the oil shortly thereafter. This WAS only about two thousand miles ago, so my experience is NOT something to act upon, yet... EDIT I didnt really MEAN to contradict what nipper said; I was mentioning what *I* did and was halfway fishing for someone to go and tell me I was a bad boy. However, there are as many opinions on THAT subject as there are on the T-belt cover subject.. ALOT of people quite plain and simply will NOT put ANYTHING but oil into their crankcase, and I cannot say anything against that policy.. beyond saying that I am not that worried about doing it myself. In my opinion, their apprehension is PERFECTLY valid; I do this being EXTREMELY aware of what I am doing, and I keep it in myind every time I hear my engine make a funny noise. END EDIT +1 on "anything but fram" When you get ready to do timing belts, water pump, etc, its usually best to do the oil pump reseal at that point. If you go through the "scrubbing bubbles" and your TOD doesn't go away, then may as well save up for a bit and get ready to do.. water pump, oil pump reseal, front engine oil seals, timing belts, and regrease or replace the bearings in your timing belt tensioner sand idlers... That ought to have your soob good for another 100K or so. There is a wicked nasty debate that never ends regarding leaving the timing belt covers off, or putting them back on.. the short of it is, safest way is to drill out the stupid bolt thingies that hold them in and use zip ties to re attach it. However, leaving them off makes it SUPER easy to re tension them after 20K, which is SOP, and it also makes inspection a breeze any time. If you dont wanna bother with the crank and cam seals, no one will shoot you. Personally, I had to put T belts on the car when I got it free from my brother, and i had no $$ for the seals or the pump.. the water pump blew out about 20K later, and I had to do it all over again, still never resealed the oil pump, and still havent replaced the oil seals.. BUT, I'm guessing you are well aware of the way that sorta job SHOULD go (ie, do it all at once to save time later) Good luck!

ahh hey.. I *should* be striving to maintain the connection between the sensor and the wire while testing, correct? I am NOT supposed to be unplugging the O2 sensor, and putting my positive lead into the wire coming from the sensor, correct? all voltage readings thus far have been with the sensor plugged in... Just now with the engine at temp, but without driving it at all, i tried unplugging the sensor and testing voltage JUST between it and ground, and got zero.. Engine is up to temp now, about to go for a warm up drive to make sure the O2 sensor is adequately heated.. EDIT Okay, just drove around the block a bit, got her good and heated.. and the O2 sensor was showing a voltage of .28-.35, with or without the spark plug wire pulled... SO I am guessing I need to get a NEW NEW O2 sensor and not some junk out of the garage.... now, about that magic wand.... If only there was some way to TEST a junkyard O2 sensor... Well, off to the telephone to find the cheapest one I can get, and then call the parents to bum the cash... THATS always fun....

BADA BING, another smack on the forehead for not thinking of the obvious. thanks again cougar, going out for the warmup right now. pray that i dont get zapped in pulling the plugwire.

My initial post edited.. I will say again, this thread would make an EXCELLENT candidate for a TOD sticky.. Anyone Agree?? The original post was cogent, and well informed, and he asked excellent questions. If we can get enough posts here including ANY and all relevant information, it would be to the benefit of us all to keep this on file somewhere. If all else fails I intend on bookmarking it for future reference.

Grounds are checked and re-enforced, MAF has been swapped with another to no effect. Sorry I forgot to mention those two points in the original "update"

Allright now, lets bring things up to speed. Only codes thrown in D check are O2 sensor, vehicle speed sensor, neutral switch, and park switch. I have changed to junkyard FPR and fuel pump to no avail. Fuel filter, air filter, plugs can wires and rotor all fairly fresh... CTS, TPS, MAF, IAC, and EGR all working properly. No vacuum leaks detected by REPEATED "hose-stethoscope" method. My spark plugs look good, a nice clean burn.. yet my fuel mileage has gone from something in the 25mpg region to something in the 15-18 mpg region. (in addition to the horrible running condition) I smell no fuel to indicate a leak anywhere; certainly not a leak to account for THAT kind of loss. My sparks WERE gapped at .042", now they are gapped at .036.. those are the upper and lower range stated in the FSM. I tried to eyeball the injector spray pattern, but quite frankly it was going too fast for me to SEE it!! I did not notice any irregularities, and it moistened up the throttle plate good and quick.. I just verified that my "fourth pin from the left," the pin I had been testing initially, IS in fact the line from the O2 sensor. for the record, when I unplug the connector and look at it THAT way, with the lock tab up, said pin IS the fourth one in from the right... It changes whether you are looking at the ECU side of the connector, or the wire side of the connector. (duh) When I check voltage in this system with the car warmed up and running, it is rather steady at 0.21.. it can go as high as 0.33 but I only saw that at startup. Interestingly enough, 0.21 volts is what the ECU feeds it with the key on, engine off.. Does this mean my O2 sensor isnt doing ANYTHING? is there any way to "test" the functioning of my O2 sensor?? why does unplugging my O2 sensor do NOTHING to effect the running of the car? I have zero resistance in that line. SO, I guess maybe the (used) O2 sensor I put in was no better than the one I took out, or I need a new ECU. Now, things that I have NOT verified yet.. fuel pressure and quality of spark. I am REALLY beginning to think about playing with the distributor timing, but any playing in that field is going to be done blind, and the timing as it sits now was set with a light. Marking the distributor with a sharpie should be good enough to give me a spot to adjust back to, if changing the timing doesnt do anything, right? Would you think I should advance it more, or retard it? The more I battle this the more I want to try a new ECU, but i dont have the bucks to cough up at the junkyard if I am wrong... I am about to find a way to run a leakdown test or run another compression check.. is there any way that a problem like THIS could arise from lower end damage done while I was driving many months with a blown headgasket? no water in oil that I could DETECT... so to re state.. O2 sensor: How can i test its function? why does unpluging it make no difference to the car? does my voltage reading indicate a lean running condition, spark plug condition be damned? Timing: would a sharpie mark probably be good enough for me to put it back to the timing i have now (which was set with a light)? which would be recommended, advancing or retarding? (i can do both, just curious) ECU: anyone feel like shipping me an ECU for cost of shipping? seriously, the junkyard here only wants $25 so it probably wouldnt be worth it to have one shipped.. anyone think the ECU is a likely culprit? Fuel: someone wave a magic wand and materialize a fuel pressure gauge for me. While youre at it, make new sparks, plugs wires cap rotor and filters for me, too, since I am too broke to buy all that and rule them all out 100%. (well, popping the air box open makes no difference so i know it isnt the air filter..)

Keep one size matched on front, and one on back, Not using 4wd with mismatched tires is a subject I know zero about, but i THINK you shouldnt use it at ALL with different sizes front and back.. but like I said, all my knowledge is hearsay (or "read-type," if you will.. AKA "internet parroting") And yes, tires themselves can make the car pull. Make sure they are all properly inflated; again, you can have a different pressure front vs. rear but match your right to your left on each axle. Mismatched pressures on either side will most ASSUREDLY cause the car to pull to one side.

Water pump should be replaced with the T belts as a matter of course. It doesnt matter if it is a leak in the gasket, or the shaft, it will be leaking out the shaft soon enough. just change it, itll need it soon enough. AT LEAST buy and carry a spare; if you have left the belt covers off, then worst case scenario, changing it on the side of the road wont be TOO difficult.. just make sure you ALSO have some method of tensioning the timing belt as well.

DUDE no!!!! If he does that, where will he eat his picnic lunch? the bumper makes a seat AND a table

if memory serves, our soob uses the same air filter as a first generation 300ZX. If it flows enough for 3.0 liters to make over 150HP stock, then it flows enough for an EA82 to do ANYTHING it can. The filter is NOT a restriction, the THROTTLE BODY and the heads are.

Yah dude, you guys gotta keep in mind that I am just NOT thinking right, so the pbvious things (like cougars method of finding the O2 sensor wire with a multimeter) are just not occurring to me. It is enough to know that the wire is not necessarily the same color on both ends; it may be it may not. I can get this figured out, it just BLEW my MIND That A: I made the brain fart of checking the fourth pin from the LEFT, getting my right and left confused.. and then B: that fourth pin from the LEFT seemed to be telling me it was the )2 sensor wire! INCIDENTALLY!!!!!!! I just now realized that the fact that I relayed my starter circuit, means that I in a sense have a remote starter switch!! I can check injector spray pattern, and spark characteristics, without an assistant to man the key!!!! DUH!! See what I mean? I have been held up by a lack of an assistant for weeks in checking those two, when all I have to do is touch my relay signal wire coming from the ignition switch, to the battery terminal!! *smacks*self*in*forehead* the stress of no job is really getting to me.

He meant to say "distributor." Just thought I would make the correction for ya