05 Lemon Legacy Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 05 Legacy i, M/T, 65k miles I bought this car from the original owner in May '09 with 48k on it, all maint records, and in great shape. It blew up on Christmas eve. 65k miles, been running Valvoline full synthetic since purchase, no hint of any problems, no engine codes, oil light, overheating, nothing, but now has a knock in the engine that would make a Singapore whore proud. What would be your advice on what to do with this car, SNA says that I can take it to their dealer for a diagnostic at my expense and that they MAY do something for me, but at 65k it is out of warranty and they really don't have any liability for the car at all. This prospect does not appeal as I will most likely be financing a teardown at dealership rates and then have to foot another bill for an engine or rebuild. Any advice appreciated and look out for Lemon Legacy's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjeep Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 05 Legacy i, M/T, 65k miles I bought this car from the original owner in May '09 with 48k on it, all maint records, and in great shape. It blew up on Christmas eve. 65k miles, been running Valvoline full synthetic since purchase, no hint of any problems, no engine codes, oil light, overheating, nothing, but now has a knock in the engine that would make a Singapore whore proud. What would be your advice on what to do with this car, SNA says that I can take it to their dealer for a diagnostic at my expense and that they MAY do something for me, but at 65k it is out of warranty and they really don't have any liability for the car at all. This prospect does not appeal as I will most likely be financing a teardown at dealership rates and then have to foot another bill for an engine or rebuild. Any advice appreciated and look out for Lemon Legacy's. I'm told that Subaru does not recommend synthetic oil for their engines. It sounds like you are caught between a rock and a hard place. I would check if that is true. If it is, then you will have a problem with Subaru. I had a 2005 Subie that I was using synthetic oil in from the day I bought it new. Engine seemed to run fine, but I traded it in at 36,000 miles. Did have a bearing go under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Who knows, previous owner maybe didn't fill the engine with oil and drove it, then realized later, so he decided to sell it. Best bet, find another ej25 block and use your heads. Hopefully someone here can recommend a private shop in your area that will be alot cheaper then the dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 you would be better to swap a motor from a wreck. its less labor rate to swap a good motor than to take apart and rebuild a bad one. if you sell the car, stick to the book value since its too easy for someone else to flip the car by swapping a motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) is this the GT model. GT's had a failure of banjo bolt. otherwise, yeah i am with you, and it sucks. see my for sale ad. oh, edit. you have the i model. that is an odd thing to happen. Edited January 12, 2010 by bheinen74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 #1 To the best of my knowledge Subaru has no problems with Synthetic. In fact they used to offer an extended engine warrenty package for using Castrol oils at the recommended intervals (Must be well documented), and the mileage coverage increases from 100K with Dyno, 200k with Sythetic Blend, to 300k with full synthetic. When I had my STi and '05 LGT I was having the dealer do the oil changes (no place to do them myself at the time) and they were installing Castrol Syntec fulll synthetic. This was two years ago. #2 If you're not a car expert you really should have someone experianced listed to it. Lots of other things can make knocking noises. I understand that you think it's loud, but things can get amplified by all the metal involved. I've had two engines that I though had rod knocks that were actually failed timing belt tensioners. #3 It's not a lemon. You didn't own the car from new and have no idea how the car was treated for the most of it's life. It's a failure of some kind. Sometime's things happen. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmm001 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I thought Subaru had a TSB/Recall program for this issue in their Turbo motors? Anyone? Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 The Title says this is an i model which means NO TURBO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05 Lemon Legacy Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Does this engine have a timing belt, gears or a chain? If an issue with a tensioner would it not be running out of time? I drove the car home on the day the knocking started about 30 miles, and up a few good grades and it ran fine with no noticed power loss. The knock is in the left side, seems like the front cylinder, still runs fine, just knocks really loud, no oil light, oil is clean on the stick and not burned, waiting for better weather to drop the pan and look for metal. Could this be something other than a bearing issue? I've looked at my driven accessories and listened with the driverscope for issues there but have found none. As stated in my first post, this car has been well maintained and documented. As far as being a lemon, any car that has engine failure after 65k and with recorded maintenance can be nothing else, despite the lemon law definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Yes, this has a good chance of not being rod knock. This car has a timing belt. The timing belt tensioners can fail and do exactly what you're saying. They don't typically fail enough (at first) to slip time and will run fine. Probably by design since this is an interference motor - if the belt slips you are hosed and will need a head rebuild or motor replacement. Have the timing tensioner fixed now if that's what it is. Might as well just have a new timing belt installed while you're at it. Subaru charges $699 for a timing belt job around my parts....add another $150 for the tensioner. A mechanic will be much cheaper probably. Very odd at such low mileage and age. Although these newer tensioners are notorious for being less reliable than older ones, weird considering the interference nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05 Lemon Legacy Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Grossgary- I typically try and do my own work if it doesn't require machining, what are the steps to diagnose a failed tensioner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 A friend of mine bought a 99 forester. 2.5 was diagnosed as rod knock. Turned out that tensioner failed and was just flopping around. Amazingly ran perfectly, and timing didn't jump without any tension! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 what are the steps to diagnose a failed tensioner? If its failed the belt would be slack, you could check this easily enough by removing one of the belt covers or check through an inspection port if equipped. If that fails to be decisive, follow the endwrench procedures on timing belts, inspect tensioner for leaks. Your tensioner is probably best replaced if you remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDfreak Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 A friend of mine bought a 99 forester. 2.5 was diagnosed as rod knock. Turned out that tensioner failed and was just flopping around. Amazingly ran perfectly, and timing didn't jump without any tension! What mileage do the tensioners usually need to be serviced? What mileage do they fail at without proper service/maintenance? I have had my engine diagnosed with rod knock at the dealer, but an independent shop said no major engine problems (besides head gasket at the time). Turns out independent shop did a valve job on it (plus a head gasket replacement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I don't think there is a actual set time to replace the tensioner just a simple inspection for leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Curious to know what the outcome of this was? OP any news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5_IMP Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 #3 It's not a lemon. You didn't own the car from new and have no idea how the car was treated for the most of it's life. It's a failure of some kind. Sometime's things happen. Sorry +1. Most state lemon laws specify that a manufacturer must provide a refund or replacement for a defective new vehicle when a substantial defect cannot be fixed in four attempts, a safety defect within two attempts or if the vehicle is out of service for 30 days within the first 12,000 to 18,000 miles or 12 to 24 months. Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/lemon_law/#ixzz0fuZQHTLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05 Lemon Legacy Posted April 23, 2010 Author Share Posted April 23, 2010 Maybe this doesn't qualify under the lemon law as a lemon for those who wish to debate the issue, but for a documented maintenance vehicle with 65k miles to have a bearing failure qualifies it as a lemon in my book, and after all it's my book that this stupid lemon is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Maybe this doesn't qualify under the lemon law as a lemon for those who wish to debate the issue, but for a documented maintenance vehicle with 65k miles to have a bearing failure qualifies it as a lemon in my book, and after all it's my book that this stupid lemon is in. Be mad all you want. There are lots of cars (yours included) that have only 50k or 60k mile warranties. Now....have you had the belt tensioner failure confirmed? fixed? we would be interested int he outcome of this if you would like to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricked919 Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 I'm a newbie to Subaru's but I can chime in on this. I was a GSM for a Toyota stealership for 4 years (worst 4 years of my life). The Lemon law is not based on emotion. Yes, this sucks, but there's a lot of parameters that need to be met to claim a lemon besides you being frustrated. I've seen Camry's and Corrolla's (previously known as remarkably reliable) lemon lawed for very minor issues that just kept reoccuring. I also saw V6 Camry's and Avalons come in with 30-40K that had bad knocks and the motors were LOADED with sludge. The owners get stuck with buying new shortblocks because Toyota thought 7,500 mile OC intervals would be OK. I lost count of lemon law threats, but none manifested . Eventually Toyota offered a warranty concessioned TSB that removed sludge from all the V6 (and eventually 4cyl) sludged motors. That cost Toyota MILLIONS back in 2002-ish ...funny how that never made news. Anyway - Unfortunately, the point is that you might have to get the word "Lemon" out of your head. You have a long way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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