tedbull Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Alright guys, I did a quick search but need more info. I have the chance to pick up a free 1992 subaru sedan, I think it is a legacy. It has a blown head gasket. Currently the motor and tranny are out. The tranny is auto and it is decent. The motor runs but needs gaskets. What will I be looking at as far as do it myself repair? I am a mechanical guy and have tools. How difficult is this job? what else should I do while motor is out? How much will I have to spend to do it right and do all labor myself? Do I need to have heads and motor surfaced? Thanks in advance. I will update as I get more info. I have not seen the rig yet but it is from a co-worker and he is an old timey chair lift mechanic and used this car for a tranny for his kid. His kid ran the other car out of oil and the tranny is comming out and going back into this rig. Anyways free is good but just wondering the amount and difficulty in labor as well as cost to do it right. Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 it's not all that bad and can be done in this case without pulling the motor. i'd have the heads resurfaced on this motor. EJ22's don't blow headgaskets unless they were overheated. so my guess is it was run hot. who knows how often or how bad so that would lend me to not doing it. but you've got a chance of being fine without doing it too, just higher risk. subaru only on the headgasket for this engine. flush the radiator and change the oil. get new valve cover, intake manifold, and exhaust gaskets and that's about all that's necessary. i recommend getting the $70 ebay kit and replace all the timing pulleys, tensioner, and belt while it's apart. throw a new water pump, reseal the oil pump (tigthen backing plate screws, new oring and sealant), and replace the cam seals and cam cap orings and you've got a reliable vehicle for not much extra cost or time. seems like a long list but all of that is easily accessible with the timing belts off. for my cars i do this when i first get them and get an easy and inexpensive 120,000 miles by just replacing the timing belt at 60k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Heads surfaced = $80 Gaskets, hoses (radiator), etc = ~$150 Thermostat (only buy from dealer) = $15 Timing belt/idler kit (ebay) = $130 So for about $400 and a bunch of labor you could have it going. For reference - I see used first gen Legacy's all the time for $750 to $1000 in good running order. If it was me I would probably take it but I have a lot of parts and have done this job many times. It would probably be a part-out car and I would use the engine for a swap, etc and sell the rest. Just depends on what you want out of the deal. I don't think it's a bad deal if the body and interior are nice. But it's not the best deal I've seen either. EJ22's rarely blow head gaskets and that begs the question - what else was abused? I have bought them for $200 and drove them home and I've got them for free, replaced something simple like an alternator and drove them home...... if I get one for cheap that runs and drives I can do just a normal 60k service (t-belt, water pump, idlers, and any seals and gaskets that are bad) and be into it for about 4 hours of labor and $150 over the purchase price. That's how I look at these anymore. Sounds like the time investment and the unknown quantities (short block condtion) are too risky to me. I would just part it out. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 ... I think it is a legacy... Ted Warning bells going off in my head! How many wheel-lugs does each wheel have, 4 or 5? If only 4, it is not a Legacy and the previous responders would almost certainly have different recommendations. (There are other ways to tell if it is a pre-Legacy car, but this seemed simplest.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted September 14, 2010 Author Share Posted September 14, 2010 (edited) I got a little more info on the car. My buddy says its a 1990 legacy 4 door sedan with 175,000 miles with the body in perfect condition with a sunroof. Automatic. He has seen my loyale many times and is sure his is a legacy. He bought the car just for the tranny. The guy he bought it from said that one day it overheated and he drove it a little bit here and there short distances before it would get hot. Also it has a new steel radiator. Before steve pulled the tranny out of it he drove it around and said it sounded good and ran good just heated up quick. So after steve put the good tranny from the sedan into the wagon his kid ran the wagon out of oil becuase he never checked it. So now the tranny and motor are coming out of the wagon so I will have a good sedan in great condition, a complete motor that needs head gasket, a complete motor that only turns a quarter turn either way. and one good tranny with 190,000 miles or so on it. Anyways sorry for the limited info but I will try to get more info soon. Edited September 14, 2010 by tedbull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 My buddy came into work today and said that he looked under the hood and saw 2.2 on the motor so it is a legacy. Now the guy he bought it from said that it was a blown head gasket, how he knew I dont know. He did replace the radiator. I read that the 2.2 motors are not prone to head gasket failer, so is there any chance that it was a thermostate stuck closed? How should I go about trouble shooting the motor while its out of the car? I was plannig on mating it to the tranny and jumping the starter to get it to crank to test the compression before I put money into it, But what else should I look for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 I read that the 2.2 motors are not prone to head gasket failer, so is there any chance that it was a thermostate stuck closed? How should I go about trouble shooting the motor while its out of the car? I was plannig on mating it to the tranny and jumping the starter to get it to crank to test the compression before I put money into it, But what else should I look for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 (edited) ej22 early years are not a headgasket eater. its ilkely something else wrong, ie air in the system, maybe low on coolant, etc. I would NOT tear into an early EJ22 to do headgaskets the Subaru gods made that engine to last an eternity, not have to do headgaskets. check the radiator, burp it, new cap on rad, etc......never tear down a ej22 they go for half a million before needing tore down. i have never seen a blown EJ22 hg, but have seen MAny newer ones....subaru made that ej22 bullet proof, like the song....serious, i know what i am talking about that motor is the best FUJI ever had....lets hope someday they can replicate that engine, or just bring it back. Edited September 16, 2010 by bheinen74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I've seen EJ22's blow head gaskets and given that the engine is going to be accesible (unbolted from the tranny), it's a trivial matter to throw in new head gaskets and gives an opportunity to inspect the cylinders, etc. In my opinion it would be silly not to include the head gaskets in a reseal. A compression check would show you nothing. A head gasket leak small enough to allow it to run would not show on the gauge. A leak-down *might* show it but it might equally not as the leak might only open at operating temp. The only sensible course is to remove the heads and inspect. Then go from there. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 my ej had been overheated by me... doh! twice . cracked radiator. original hg's at 244k. no problems. trust gd, if its got hella o/h problem, rip them heads off and see what is up. its better to do it now rather than in the car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I'm with GD. Normally I'd say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but is sounds like this one is kind of broke. Besides, if the job is done by the book, it should be back to it's proper long living form. I plan on going through my 192,000 mile EJ22 that I just bought even though it ran beautifully on the way home and doesn't leak anything. It's out of the car and accessible, it would really suck to drop the motor in only to find a problem later. As my wife says, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 Ok, so what else should I replace while I am tearing into it? Some people say to replace: Head gaskets. Timing belts and tensioner. Thermostate. Water pump. multiple gaskets. flush radiator. Does this list look right? is there anything else I should add? Show me the list you would make if you where tearing into a 2.2 motor with 170,000 miles on it. ALSO- what about the tranny? How do the automatic transmissions hold up? Is there any preventitive maintenance I can do to it or a service while its out of the car? Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I would replace all the gaskets that will be removed in the process of removing the heads, such as valve cover gaskets. I'm going to check the connecting rod and main bearings on mine as long as I have easy access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Head gaskets Intake/exhaust gaskets Cam/crank seals and cam support o-rings Timing belt/2 smooth idlers/1 cogged idler/1 tensioner idler Water pump Valve cover gaskets/bolt grommets Don't touch the rear main unless it's leaking and don't touch the oil pan unless it's obviously leaking, dented, etc - they are RTV from the factory and almost never fail. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 Alright, thanks for the info guys. I am picking up the car next weekend and will update this thread as I get going. How about the tranny's? Are the legacy auto trannys built well? Is there anything I should to to it (other than fluid change) before I throw it back in the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Alright, thanks for the info guys. I am picking up the car next weekend and will update this thread as I get going. How about the tranny's? Are the legacy auto trannys built well? Is there anything I should to to it (other than fluid change) before I throw it back in the car? the subaru ej auto trans is surprisingly durable, in spite of the fact that you see a fair number of legos with bad trans. i had one fail in a 95 lego sedan, but i bought it at an auction w/ 75k and drove it 90k without ever servicing the trans. it is possible that the trans went 165k on the original fluid. i think that makes it a durable trans. change the fluid now and then when you change the oil in the engine over the next year, drain the trans and refill. (about a gallon per drain.) this will keep the fluid fresh and if any dirt has collected in the trans it will help remove it . then you can follow the scheduled maintenance. although some folks do a trans drain and fill with every oil change every time. if you are doing it yourself it just adds the cost of a gal. of fluid, $10 - $15 ?? Edited September 18, 2010 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 Thanks again for the info, I will be picking the car up this next weekend. I will post pics and I am sure more questions then. Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 Yes - the EJ automatic's (4EAT) are very reliable and with an occasional flush they will easily last the life of the car. They are more reliable than the 5 speed's. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted September 27, 2010 Author Share Posted September 27, 2010 Head gasketsIntake/exhaust gaskets Cam/crank seals and cam support o-rings Timing belt/2 smooth idlers/1 cogged idler/1 tensioner idler Water pump Valve cover gaskets/bolt grommets Don't touch the rear main unless it's leaking and don't touch the oil pan unless it's obviously leaking, dented, etc - they are RTV from the factory and almost never fail. GD I called the subaru dealer and got a price for all the parts listed above. They wanted over $900 for everything listed above. I know that I need to use subaru oem head gaskets but what about the rest of the parts? can I use aftermarket for the rest of the gaskets and parts? Also where is a good site to order online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 (edited) I buy all my timing belt/water pump kits (with idlers and tensioners where required) from MizumoAuto or TheImportExperts on ebay. I just bought a 97 2.5 kit with belt, idlers, water pump, cam/crank seals for $158 free shipping and I know the 2.2 kits are around $120 free shipping (shorter belt)..... Those are the most expensive parts from the dealer and as long as you replace them EVERY time the belt is done the aftermarket stuff is fine. Subaru doesn't call out those parts to EVER be replaced which is rediculous IMO. I've done all the shopping around - the ebay guys are by FAR the cheapest around. I've not had a single issue except an incorrect idler pulley on one order and they corrected it within 2 days (MizumoAuto in that case). I have got DOHC belts with improper timing marks on the belt but it was noted on the paperwork I received that the marks should not be used. The belt worked fine and the marks were indeed WAY off. Tis the price you pay to get a hell of a deal. It was worth it and I don't need the marks anyway. Everything else you should get at the dealer and I forgot to add the thermostat+gasket. Also if you get the ebay kits don't forget to buy an OEM water pump gasket from the dealer as the one's included with the aftermarket pumps are paper. After you buy the ebay kit, this will be your new dealer list: Head gaskets Intake/exhaust gaskets cam support o-rings Valve cover gaskets/bolt grommets Thermostat+gasket Water pump gasket GD Edited September 27, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 I am finally getting around to starting the work to get the subaru going. I got a car and was told the headgaskets were blown and that it ran good but overheated. The car was from a friend. Thank you for all the info above. I need to get this car running to get it out of my driveway and parked at another spot. Here is my question. How important is it that I use OEM headgaskets? I was planning on going all aftermarket for parts becuase of price. The car has 160,000 miles on it. By going aftermarket I understand that the reliablility wont be there but I was wondering if the headgaskets are just junk or just not as good? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) i'm not 100% sure, but the OEM only is for the 2.5L engine. the ej22, which you have, is not as sensitive, i don't think. having said that i have bought some off brand seals, cam and crank, and i am not happy with the quality. if you do some research about online subaru parts and compare them to quality local parts store parts, napa and felpro maybe, i think you will find the the price on the head gaskets is not a make or break point on the parts. in other words, felpro will probably do fine on the ej22 but i doubt you will save 50% compared to oem online prices. check around. www.subarugenuineparts.com www.subarupartsforyou.com as for seals, cheaper is not better. i would stick with quality parts. i bought a cheap set and have leaks within two years. i have to re-do some. Edited February 21, 2011 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Its ends up being more than a 50% savings. I purchased aftermarket for my 1.8 EA82 and did a complete motor reseal and timeing, everything except head gaskets and I was impressed with the quality and have had no issues and no leaks. Just not sure about the headgaskets on the 2.2. Would like to hear from someone who has used aftermarket headgaskets on their 2.2EJ GD provided info in this thread about mizumoauto on ebay. Timing belt kit with waterpump $101.99 from mizumo. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Timing-Belt-Kit-Water-Pump-Subaru-EJ18-EJ25-90-Feb-97-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZYearQ3a1990Q7cMakeQ3aSubaruQ7cModelQ3aLegacyQQhashZitem336319e45eQQitemZ220705973342QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories Complete engine gasket set, head gaskets and head bolts is $86.39 from mizumo. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-98-2-2L-Subaru-Impreza-EJ22E-Head-Gasket-Set-Bolts-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3cacea5fd8QQitemZ260599078872QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories I think the dealer wants $100 for just the head gaskets. so it is considerably cheaper for aftermarket. I could reseal the entire engine and do the timing belts for $188. Plus coolant, thermostate, and new radiator cap. Edited February 21, 2011 by tedbull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 FACT: ej25 head gaskets from online OEM dealers, is $76 or less. ej22 head gaskets would be much less. do not confuse your local dealer prices with online dealer prices. be careful what you buy. i bought a head gasket kit for 36$ om line. i only needed the seals. i still regret the purchase. but in the long run it is your money and your decision. and the most difficult thing in the world is to change a convinced individuals mind. good luck. i suggest you stick with a known name when buying gaskets and seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedbull Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Good points but I do need all of the gaskets listed as I am doing a reseal and I am trying to do it as cheap as possible for now, If I have to do it again in a year or so (if the car lasts that long) thats ok. I still would like to hear from someone who has used aftermarket headgaskets on thier 2.2. How did they hold up? Would you do it again? Why do people recommend the OEM gaskets? Are they made from differant material? Or differant prosses? Are they really that much better? I used to be all oem all the time but it just costs too much, times are tuff. Edited February 21, 2011 by tedbull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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