2003 engine and what I have learned

[Fairtax4me]

 

I also found a torn right, inner CV boot. What is the best course of action there? Boot, one end or whole axle? Hopefully I'll find some info on How To here.

 

It only takes a few extra seconds to reboot the outer end when the inner end is disassembled.

[idosubaru]

definitely reboot - aftermarket axles have a lot of issues. simple to replace both at the same time but if the outer boot looks great these 2003 era boots last a long time, they're better than the old style boots which always need replaced. for the newer style, i have left them before without replacing the outers.

[Whitedog]

definitely reboot - aftermarket axles have a lot of issues. simple to replace both at the same time but if the outer boot looks great these 2003 era boots last a long time, they're better than the old style boots which always need replaced. for the newer style, i have left them before without replacing the outers.

 

250,000 miles long time? That's where we are right now.

[Whitedog]

Well, the boss is vacillating on selling as is or fixing the Sub. So I'm trying to see if I can cut some cost by not pulling the engine. I would do the timing belt and water pump of course, but my concern is torquing the head bolts. I'm guessing it can be done in the car and the big reason for pulling the heads is because the bolts have to be in the head and I would have to maneuvre things around with them sliding back and forth, getting in the way. There are folks that have done this in the car and if any of you are reading, I would appreciate your input on what I would face. Now if it were a DOHC, well then it becomes a no brainer since the cams have to come out to pull the head, but that isn't so on a SOHC, therefore that part isn't an issue. So what are the other issues I could run into?

 

There are also HG cheaper kits available on line, but they don't seem to be as complete as others, yet they have some stuff that more expensive kits don't have. Any thoughts?

 

The TB kit, I will get from a reputable place so I don't end up with Prothe crap.

 

Thanks

[Whitedog]

General question on selling price: Will the mileage (250,000) really knock down the price on this car if we sell?

[Mike104]

Obviously you know that the same car with 230k miles will be worth less than one with 90k.

 

To get an idea of the difference, you can go here http://www.kbb.com/whats-my-car-worth/ to get an idea of the difference using both 90k and 230k as the mileage. Its not a guarantee but will give you an idea of the price difference.

[Whitedog]

Obviously you know that the same car with 230k miles will be worth less than one with 90k.

 

To get an idea of the difference, you can go here http://www.kbb.com/whats-my-car-worth/ to get an idea of the difference using both 90k and 230k as the mileage. Its not a guarantee but will give you an idea of the price difference.

 

Thanks Mike. The problem I have with KBB is that They don't do well with high demand vehicles, from my understanding. Take a VW TDI for example. If it get's to high mileage, the KBB value really drops, whereas the market will demand a higher price, regardless of the miles.

[Mike104]

True. Try checking craigslist in your area for asking prices, it may give you a guide. Generally people that don't know Subaru's will stay away from a car with extremely high mileage. I would generally take a car with less than 100k vs one with over 200k, unless they were giving it away. Just my 2 cents.

 

I have heard that edmunds.com gives a better idea of pricing than KBB. For a 2003 they range from $7-10k. The key is finding someone that wants you car even if it has 230k on it.

[Whitedog]

I spent some time with the old girl today.

 

Compression:

 

#1 180 PSI

#2 190 PSI

#3 180 PSI

#4 0 PSI

 

I had checked the valves and on #4, none of the valves were held open and the adjustment was in the ball park and the exhaust was a little bit loose, so I know that the valves weren't being held open. I don't know if this supports the burnt valve theory, though I am leaning away from that.

 

Why? Because we like you.

 

Well, that and after I did the comp test, I put air to #4 and rolled the engine and I had lots and lots of air coming from the oil fill tube.

 

So, what does that make you think of?

[Fairtax4me]

Broken rings or a hole melted in the piston.

There will always be some blowby past the rings. Did you check the other cylinders for the same symptom?

[Whitedog]

Broken rings or a hole melted in the piston.

There will always be some blowby past the rings. Did you check the other cylinders for the same symptom?

 

D'oh! Never thought thought to check the others.

 

Anyway, I did a field expedient oil analysis by pouring some oil from the filter across a clean pan and looked for sparklies and didn't see any. This doesn't rule out broken rings, but it kinda leans away from it, don't you think? Or not?

 

And what about a hole in the piston? That wouldn't show metal in the oil, would it?

 

Of course my analysis isn't perfect, but it's what I got for now.

[johnceggleston]

it seems to me at this point it does not much matter. #4 is shot regardless of the cause. we can speculate, but don't think anything is going to change what's next. time to pull the engine / head and look inside.

 

a burnt valve would have air escaping out the exhaust, right? not the crank case.

 

typically it is more efficient to replace rather than rebuild a bottom end on these engines. (unless you are working by the hour for a boss who does not care or is unaware. and i don't think that describes your boss.)

 

look for a car or engine, cheap, that has a busted timing belt. (ej25 96 - 04, watch out for ''overheated'' engines, they can develop rod knock.) use the short block and slap on your heads. and off you go.

[Whitedog]

John, the boss's office is ten feet from where I work on the cars so he knows what goes on. LOL!

 

You mentioned the difference between heads and block damage. Heads are repair, block is sell. We tossed around selling it to me, but I'm not sure about that. I have a line on someone else that MAY be interested though.

 

I hadn't thought of looking for a dead car. With a broken timing belt, there should be enough good parts to build one good engine. Hmmm... More discussion in the shop is needed.

 

We also have a 98 Dodge full size van that needs a transmission so there is lots of discussion going on and they all are about how to spend the boss's money.

[Whitedog]

John, the boss's office is ten feet from where I work on the cars so he knows what goes on. LOL!

 

You mentioned the difference between heads and block damage. Heads are repair, block is sell. We tossed around selling it to me, but I'm not sure about that. I have a line on someone else that MAY be interested though.

 

I hadn't thought of looking for a dead car. With a broken timing belt, there should be enough good parts to build one good engine. Hmmm... More discussion in the shop is needed.

 

We also have a 98 Dodge full size van that needs a transmission so there is lots of discussion going on and they all are about how to spend the boss's money.

[Whitedog]

Drove the car about half a mile today and the oil smoke was really bad, so I'm sure the bottom end... er... center end... well, whatever you call it, is done.

 

We are pricing a JDM now. That's better than nothing.

[Whitedog]

I'm back again.

 

Something that I haven't learned is the reliability of the automatic transmissions in this car. I can't drive it enough to get any kind of a feel for it, but are these long-lasting transmissions? If we swing in a JDM with low mileage, it will somewhat ameliorate the high mileage of the chassis, I would think.

[Whitedog]

AM I supposed to be able to see the top of the ring while the piston is still in the bore? LOL!!!

 

Not only is the piston ruint, but there is displaced aluminum on the cylinder and some scoring lower down. Boss man wants me to price out boring oversize. UGH.

 

That would entail a complete teardown and that is something I'm not sure I want to tackle. Any thoughts or words of encouragement?

[Whitedog]

February update:

 

Bought engine from board member. It is in really good shape, but there is a bit of a sticky point. It's a 99 2.2 instead of the 2.5 for the 2003. So far a couple of things I have run into:

 

The alternator bracket that came with the 2.2 has different threads for the AC mounts. No big deal, I just swapped brackets.

 

The 2.5 had an EGR port on the head, the 2.2 didn't. 27/64 drill followed with an M20X1.5 bottoming tap then a 3/8 drill and I have a new EGR port in the head. I had to burnish in the pipe fitting to get a good seat, but it worked well.

 

There is a port that I THINK is the PCV on the top, rear of the engine, near the flex plate bolt access hole. On the 2.5, there is a pipe with female pipe threads on the top, then a check valve with a 3/8 nipple. From there is a hose that goes into the intake manifold. On the 2.2 is a 3/4 nipple that goes to a 4" section of hose then a plastic "Y". I'm not sure what way to go here. Do I need this port plugged into the intake with a check valve?

 

Another thing that I noticed is that the injectors are different colors and I have no idea if this means anything at all. I know that the 2.2 was from a manual trans car because the crank gear had teeth all the way around, so I don't know if this will matter in regards to the injectors. I swapped over the cam and crank sensors as well as the cam gears so I should be working with like stuff there.

 

I'm also wondering what other surprises I may find.

[jarl]

The 2.5 had an EGR port on the head, the 2.2 didn't. 27/64 drill followed with an M20X1.5 bottoming tap then a 3/8 drill and I have a new EGR port in the head. I had to burnish in the pipe fitting to get a good seat, but it worked well

 

Ninja! Not long ago someone was talking about the EGR-ing of a block as if it was a mythical beast

 

One comment, though... you say you used an M20x1.5 tap... Isn't it an M12? (27/64" = 10.715mm)

[johnceggleston]

There is a port that I THINK is the PCV on the top, rear of the engine, near the flex plate bolt access hole.

 

On the 2.5, there is a pipe with female pipe threads on the top, then a check valve with a 3/8 nipple. From there is a hose that goes into the intake manifold.

 

On the 2.2 is a 3/4 nipple that goes to a 4" section of hose then a plastic "Y". I'm not sure what way to go here. Do I need this port plugged into the intake with a check valve?

 

yes, however you work it, you want the intake connected to the threaded hole on the engine. and yes that is the PCV. the valve in a PCV is a check valve allowing pressure / crank case fumes to flow one way but not the other. (i had a 1961 chevy pickup with a little V8, its PCV consisted of a hose attached to the crank case that ran down the block dripped on the ground. that was positive crankcase ventilation.)

 

i wasn't aware of the differences, one sounds like the PCV is threaded into the block and the other is located further downstream on the hose? but simply put, you need a check valve and the crank case connected to the intake, and ALL hose nipples either connected or sealed. how you get there probably is not critical.

 

in the late 90s engines, the injectors are not an issue as long as they work correctly. the computer is going to adjust the fuel air ratio to the proper amount and the engine runs fine.

 

good work on the EGR.

 

so i take it you are using the ej22 block and the ej25 intake manifold or just the plastic tubing from the air filter box to the throttle body??

Edited February 10, 2012 by johnceggleston

[Whitedog]

Jarl: I got the drill size wrong. It was 1/64 under 3/4. Let's see - 3/4 is 48/64 so it must have been 47/64.

 

John: yeah, everything will get closed. It is a 2.2 long block with the 2.5 intake. We thought about deleting the EGR, but the ECU would look for it and I hate CELs. The tap and drill wasn't cheap, but $60 was cheap for having that dang light off.

 

Odd thing about the PCV is that what came out of the 2.5 had a 3/8 nipple and when I asked for one from NAPA, it was a smaller pipe thread size and a 5/8 nipple. I need to run to the Subaru store for plug wires so I'll check there with the PCV in hand.

 

One other thing about the injectors is that #4 piston burned, most likely from a lean condition, I guess. If the injector wasn't working right would this cause a lean condition?

[Whitedog]

Well, that didn't go bad at all. I swung the engine in yesterday afternoon and this morning she made smoke. With all of the oil in in the exhaust that was to be expected.:cool:

 

When starting it, I unhooked the coil connector and went to crank, but got nothing. No click or anything. I looked at the starter and then I realized where that one spare wire connector that was hanging out went. So I hooked it up and cranked until i saw pressure on my gauge I had installed and after I saw pressure coming up, I plugged in the coil and it turned twice and purred. That was sweet since I didn't understand where the mark on the block was for the passenger side cam, so I just applied a bit of CFS and got it right.

 

Just a bit of stuff like guards and air intake and a CV boot, then get it detailed and it will be ready to run. I'm thinking I'll let it go for maybe 500 miles and drop the oil and filter.

 

No codes either.

[jarl]

 

So... had you talk about buying it yourself?

[GeneralDisorder]

Did you end up replacing the #4 injector?

 

I'm really glad that engine worked out for you. That's what the Subaru forums are all about. I assume your boss is rather pleased with your ability to find solutions at low, low prices eh?

 

The few challenges in putting that engine in place of the 2.5 should be well worth it considering the overall cost savings and high likelyhood of the car being trouble-free till you have to divest yourselves of it in a few years. Let us know when it comes up for sale...

 

GD

[Whitedog]

Rick, I didn't replace the injector. It has me just a tiny bit concerned, but not much. I guess I'm wishing for a sign that something needs to be done there.

 

As far as the things I had to change, I spent more time looking for parts, pieces and tools than actually doing anything. The PCV, I used the one that screws into the intake and just used a reducer to drop from 3/4 hose to 5/8 hose.

 

I forgot about the dowel pin that we had to take out, so I had to work just a bit extra on that, but no big deal. It was nice working on such a small, light engine that I could wrestle around to get it mated to the transmission.

 

Ah... the flex plate bolts. I don't like to tighten them until I get them all started, so I got them started, then after I tightened the first one, it pulled the TC in and the other bolts hit so i couldn't turn the engine LOL! So, I went back and worked them all in a bit at a time until they were all snugged up.

 

I also found out that the AC compressor only has the two upper, horizontal bolts and the one, vertical bolt, not the two, lower horizontal bolts.

 

I wish that our Ford van had a hood that was so easy to put into "service" position. My head REALLY wishes it did. I like having the hood latch so far back.

 

(I'd still rather pull the engine on a John Deere 570 Grader. I think my best time was about 45 minutes.)

 

Lastly, I want to thank all of the great information from everyone. As things worked out, I didn't do much of what I learned, but knowing stuff, helped me make decisions. I fell I owe something monetarily to the community, so if there is a way to help, drop me a PM.