whistler Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 So Tuesday I heard what sounded like some small stuff falling off the bottom of my car, went to pull over and didn't have any power to the wheels. I initially thought/hoped that it might just be the shift linkage so I got it towed home. Today I discovered that it actually has power in 4hi which means it's probably something to do with one or both of the front axles right? or it could also.be the hubs? Are there other possibilities? Do I have to pull the axles to diagnose? Or is there a way to tell just by looking? I live in an apartment and I'm just working out in the parking lot so I don't really want to leave it up on stands for multiple days once I pull stuff apart while I wait for parts. Thanks Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 It could be an axle or it could be a stripped hub - since it doesn't move in 2WD - start the car and put it in 1st gear. Set the parking brake and release the clutch (as if you were driving in first). Then get out and inspect - if the axle nut on one side is turning but the wheel is not - you have stripped the splines out of the hub. If the axle nuts aren't turning then slip underneath and check the axle shafts. One of them should be turning and that's the axle that's broken. If nothing is moving - you have lost the front diff and then it's time for the 5 speed. :-p GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Thanks GD, I was trying not to bug you. I'll give it a try after work tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 The driver's axle is rotating so I guess it's the axle then . How do I go about figuring out which axle I need and ordering it from EMPI. I was looking a month or so ago and couldn't figure out how to order from them... it looks like they're wholesale only. Do you just order from rockauto or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1267747,parttype,2288 Is that the right EMPI part? If I buy two I can replace both sides correct, they're interchangeable? Both have torn boots and since one has failed I don't know that I want to chance the other failing on me even if I rebooted it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayoteq Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Glad it's just an axle. Be sure to put the (new) bearings in carefully.. The PO had left a part out, trashed the axle end.. Maybe the same thing. Fortunately for me, this prompted him to drop the CL listing, but it was too late. I checked out the car with him swappng the axle. .. I considered it a $200 discount, parts and labor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I realized that I had confused my diagnosis and it looks like its actually the wheel hub after I already ordered and received two new empi axles, but that's probably not a bad thing since I've been driving it with torn outer axle boots. I've got a few leads on a wheel hub but in the meantime I got the axles and they don't appear to be exactly the same. One has a darker colored cup on the transmission end with numbers stamped or cut into it, the other is lighter colored. Otherwise they do seem to be the same, the part numbers on the boxes are the same and the dimensions look the same, I didn't count the number of splines or anything yet. I'm wondering if I need to be worried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Got a wheel hub from jemmy3, now I just need a little bit of halfway-decent weather... probably a tall order since it seems to have finally started raining in earnest. Could somebody please weigh in on the empi axles? Do I need to worry that they look so different even though they're supposed to be the same. I'm going to do the axles anyway while I've got stuff apart since the inner boots have been torn since some unknown time before I bought the brat at the end of August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Star Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The axles that I have now on my Brat are different than the ones that were originally on there. At first I was hesitant because they appeared to be different, but took measurements of all the dimensions and they were the same. Car is going down the road like a dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Got a wheel hub from jemmy3, now I just need a little bit of halfway-decent weather... probably a tall order since it seems to have finally started raining in earnest. Could somebody please weigh in on the empi axles? Do I need to worry that they look so different even though they're supposed to be the same. I'm going to do the axles anyway while I've got stuff apart since the inner boots have been torn since some unknown time before I bought the brat at the end of August. If they fit, they are right. The left/right sides are identical in Subarus, though the front/back are different. There are certain axles with different spline counts out there. But again, if it fits together fine, all is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Axles should be fine - don't forget to buy new cone washers for your replacement hub and to replace the old one on the hub you have that's not stripped. That's what led to this failure in the first place. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Well, I got everything taken apart with relatively little difficult The hub appears totally fine. The axle, was in fact destroyed, the outer joint had failed and the sound I heard at the moment of failure was almost certainly the ball bearings flying out of the joint as they are all gone. Obviously I'm incredibly lucky that the axle held together and didn't tear up anything else. Unfortunately, the axles that rockauto sent me, and that look the same as the axles that empi says are correct ones have DOJ cups approximately 2" larger in circumference than the axle I pulled off, and I can't for the life of me get the axle on the axle stub. Spline count is the same on both ends 23 inner / 30 outer. The DOJ cup is just hitting the steering column and I can't get it straight to the axle stub so that it will go on. As far as I can tell the length is correct, it's a little difficult since the old axle is in two pieces now. The second point of confusion is why the castle nut would be spinning when the hub appears fine... the spring washer was installed correctly, and the cone washer appears fine as well. I'm more concerned about finding an axle that will fit, if I can get it all assembled I can always put the new hub I have on later. EDIT: based on the picture in the first post of this topic: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=952745#post952745 it looks like I have replacement axles for EA82s so... how do I get the correct axles? or are the newer ones fitting for everyone else? Edited January 2, 2012 by whistler new information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 What are the part numbers of your EMPI axles? You might have EA82 axles - wouldn't be the first time someone got the wrong one's. You might also have steering rack bushing issues.... the rack shouldn't be at an angle where it's that close to the DOJ cup. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 The empi axles that I ordered are 80-5515, which is the only part number listed for brats and it says that's for brats 1982-88 in their catalog. Since the part number isn't stamped on the axle anywhere that I can find I don't know for certain that that is what rock auto gave me. The DOJ cup on the new axle is definitely larger than what I pulled off the car though. I tracked down the diagram of front suspension and steering pieces in HTKYSA just now and it's definitely the steering column that it is contacting, I'm not positive but I don't think it would be an issue if I could actually get the half shaft on. I can see the u-joint in the steering column though, so I know that that's what I am looking at. I don't think there's any other way that I could run the half shaft that would clear the steering column any better. I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow afternoon after I get off work. I don't know that I'll be able to get a decent angle perspective-wise to see the angle of the steering column though. Either way, even if the steering rack has issues, the old axle did fit in there which seems to suggest that what I received may not be right. Thanks for your help. I'm still hoping to rebuild my weber this week and get it on the brat before school starts up again in which case I'll be bringing it down at some point so you can look it all over for me, but we can discuss that once it actually happens. Do you drink beer? What's your preference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Well - one thing I've learned about axles - the only dimentions that matter for the aftermarket axle manufacturers are the spline counts of the cup's, overall length, etc. Therefore you can't judge the axle as being unsuitable based on the joint diameter - since many joint diameters are possible and indeed Subaru even used different sized joints on 2WD vs. 4WD though the complete axle assemblies are 100% interchangeable. This is also true of the EJ cars - many of the stock axles have smaller joints than the EMPI axles - which use tripod style joints instead of rzeppa 6-ball style joints internally. This results in different cup dimentions. Based on the part number I believe you have the correct axles. I have a set of the very same axles on my hatch and also Jacob has a set on his 85 Brat - though that set has 25 spline inner's stolen from EMPI Impreza axles.... I don't recall an issue with the steering shaft but.... It's very possible that either or both of us encountered this problem but don't remember because having access to my shop it wasn't a huge deal to correct and has slipped my mind :-\.... a few ideas: You may have to unbolt the steering u-joint from the rag-joint/rack to get the joint to slide on. You could also lower the transmission mount to gain some needed space or possibly just pry-bar the tranny toward the passenger side while sliding the joint over the splines. If you unbolt the rag-joint - EMPI makes urethane rag-joints for VW's that are exactly the same dimensions as the Subaru rag joints. Pretty cool upgrade for the $10 or less that they cost. Beer - sure I drink that . Rolling Rock is typically my go-to. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Finally got the steering column reattached and everything tightened back down this afternoon following too much work and the Western Washington Snowpocalypse of 2012 and the axle does in fact rub against the steering column. Sooooo since GD mentioned that it sounded like a major steering rack issue if the axle were rubbing the steering column is it an adjustment or a replacement? Is there anything else it could be? Really wish I had a garage to work on the damn thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Check the steering rack mounts on the cross-member. They may just need to be replaced and the rack is angling itself toward the column because of squishy rubber mounts. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I replaced the Driver's side mount, the bushings that were on there seemed fine, so I didn't go to the trouble of taking everything apart enough to do the passenger side bushing since that one doesn't fit around but slides over. Between the new bushing and some creativity with washers I got it to only rub some of the time and I drove it some today. Unfortunately it rubs enough to have squeezed a bunch of the grease out of the inner joint. Looks like it was probably like a roll of toothpaste when I hint a bump, the boot is intact but there's fresh grease all over everything. Good thing I have another new axle to put on, hopefully this one can just be rebooted once it's done it's service in keeping me mobile. Going to send GD a pm to see if he has time to take a look at it tuesday but here are some pictures in case anyone has any more ideas. Just noticed the angle that the rag joint is at, I imagine that's probably related to the issue, but whether it's the cause or a symptom I don't have enough experience to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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