mcbrat Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 first two times the front crank seal was replaced under warranty... '09 Forester XT not exactly thrilled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolskaterkid Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Id be pissed. What is it this time same front crank seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Virtually all of the seals I've seen installed outside my shop were done wrong. Most tech's don't really know what they are doing. Sounds like there may be a nick in the shaft, etc. Check it out yourself this time. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sosubeme Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) That's awful! 3x in a year! .......feel for ya Maybe fourth time's the charm? Good luck. Wondering what my DIY chances are, if techs are having issues.:-\ .......Guess I'll find out soon. GD, do you have any tips / techniques for cam / crank seal replacement you wish to share in addition to what I've been able to find trolling? Namely: Quality seals Pristine surfaces Light lube Correct depth Drive square I bought the eBay t-belt kit with the 4 cam and 1 crank seal(s) included. No half-assery, doing it all, including idlers, WP, cam and oil pump o-rings etc.. Any info, much appreciated! Edited May 27, 2012 by sosubeme info request / questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Just my 2, but before I'd fix it myself or pay for someone to do it, I'd for sure contact Subaru hdqtrs and complain my assess off that they ought to fix. Since it was obviously done incorrectly or insufficiently two times under warranty with so few miles, maybe faulty crank originally? Somethin's up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 probly leaking from where the pump bolts up the oring likes to cave in on self and leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 GD, do you have any tips / techniques for cam / crank seal replacement you wish to share in addition to what I've been able to find trolling? Namely: Quality seals Pristine surfaces Light lube Correct depth Drive square I bought the eBay t-belt kit with the 4 cam and 1 crank seal(s) included. No half-assery, doing it all, including idlers, WP, cam and oil pump o-rings etc.. Any info, much appreciated! That's pretty much the gist of it. Seals must be driven in precisely perpendicular to the shaft axis. As they are installed over the shaft you need to rotate the seal to prevent rolling the lip. I'm sure you will be fine if you are careful and take your time. The fact that you are here asking how to do it is a sure sign you will take your time and do it properly. The problem comes from people working too fast and not realizing how critical the precise installation of a seal really is. 9 out of 10 engines I tear into have something wrong with one or more of the front seals. I should start taking pictures but I see it so often that it's hardly worth the mention around my shop. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sosubeme Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 That's pretty much the gist of it. Seals must be driven in precisely perpendicular to the shaft axis. As they are installed over the shaft you need to rotate the seal to prevent rolling the lip. Just turn seal by hand on shaft during install? I'm sure you will be fine if you are careful and take your time. The fact that you are here asking how to do it is a sure sign you will take your time and do it properly. Thanks GD! ...a fan of doing it right,....not doing it over. The problem comes from people working too fast and not realizing how critical the precise installation of a seal really is. 9 out of 10 engines I tear into have something wrong with one or more of the front seals. I should start taking pictures but I see it so often that it's hardly worth the mention around my shop. I should be OK there, as I'm more like "painal" slow (to a fault) when it comes to precision of any sort. Whole reason the party got started, right side cam seal was urinating oil, removed without leveraging seal puller, hooked it... and it came free. Could have done it with my fingernails. GD Thanks again! Apologies for jacking your thread McBrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 If the last repair was done in the last 1 year or 12,000 miles its still covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 If the last repair was done in the last 1 year or 12,000 miles its still covered. Not even worth the hassle if it's been done wrong the last two times. For the three hours or so it takes to do it yourself... I say don't let the dealer touch it again. Do it yourself and fix it right. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 i find it better to install seal with pump on bench it tends to need to be resealed anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 i find it better to install seal with pump on bench it tends to need to be resealed anyway Yep - that's how I do them if I'm pulling the pump. Which is most of the time. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 That's pretty much the gist of it. Seals must be driven in precisely perpendicular to the shaft axis. As they are installed over the shaft you need to rotate the seal to prevent rolling the lip. I'm sure you will be fine if you are careful and take your time. The fact that you are here asking how to do it is a sure sign you will take your time and do it properly. The problem comes from people working too fast and not realizing how critical the precise installation of a seal really is. 9 out of 10 engines I tear into have something wrong with one or more of the front seals. I should start taking pictures but I see it so often that it's hardly worth the mention around my shop. GD This one is on the Legacy sitting in my driveway right now. The top edge is flush with the face of the head, bottom edge is about 1/8" in. This seal was installed by a shop that did a timing belt change on this engine about 1000 miles before the transmission bit the dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 gross that seals a dud before it was ever installed brown seals only . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Was the pump itself. The screws holding the back plate on had backed out and loosened the plate up enough so the pump was creating too much pressure at the seal. It now has an sti pump in it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) subscribing this post. that's the first time i've ever heard of the loose pump plate blowing out the seals. thanks. (and i concur on the brown seals. i used that imports/ebay black seals on my 97 last time, but this time i used real sube brown ones, and they were much nicer.) Edited June 9, 2012 by 1997reduxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 in the last year have rebiult 40 engines of those 15 had at least two loose screws on oil pump plate the top 3 screws dosent seem to matter 2.2 2.5 year or milage its like they where missed at factory theese are all engines that oilpump had never been off even with as low as 90000kms loose screws i however could not see thiss causing a leak non of theese engines where leaking from pump unless had a black seal that was cracked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I've seen this a time or two also. Shame on the dealer for not pulling the pump off and checking things out. A leaking seal from old age looks and feels a lot different than a seals that's blown out due to incorrect pump operation. That's just plain ignoranace that they did not question why it was leaking at such low mileage. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 I did not replace myself, but took it to the shop (Bud's Auto Service) in the town where I live. the main mechanic there has a Forester too. We were heading out of town for vacation, so we ended up taking the Baja instead of the Forester, and left it with them. I sourced the pump, seals and FujiBond from RetroRoo. On the flip side, taking the Baja on vacation was a great choice. with the SnugLid and tailgate, it was great for hauling luggage and loading/unloading stuff, and using as a seat when cleaning up stuff when leaving the beach... Plus, I could actually straighten my right leg all the way out occasionally so I didn't feel light my knee was going to explode... No issues at all with it... I thought I had a suspension problem, but it turns out the rattling was from the jack popping loose when I hit some rougher roads.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Was the pump itself. The screws holding the back plate on had backed out and loosened the plate up enough so the pump was creating too much pressure at the seal. It now has an sti pump in it.... Seems kind of strange, but I can see how the design of the housing would allow that with just enough of a gap. Hopefully the pressure wasn't low at idle and causing any bearing damage. What's the difference in the STi pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 FujiBond? I swear I learn something new every day on this site. So you used the grey I'm assuming? Jus wondrin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 the sti pump just has a 1mm larger bore for a bit more flow. the FujiBond is the Subaru name for their silicone sealant recommended for the oil pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) the FujiBond is the Subaru name for their silicone sealant recommended for the oil pump It's just a rebrand of ThreeBond: http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Threebond/engine/Sealants/RTV_Gasket/16805 Personally I prefer anaerobic over the various forms of RTV regardless of brand. It's much more shop friendly - infinite shelf life, won't cure so you don't have to cap the tube, easier clean up, and doesn't permanently adhere to clothing, rags, etc. RTV has it's place - but as a gasket replacement technology it has been surpassed by the anaerobic flange sealants IMO. I think you will see less of it in the future as the OEM's move to better products that are well suited to the machined and die-cast aluminium of modern components. GD Edited June 10, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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