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Another A/C question


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Ok folks I've been through most of the posts I could find on the subject and want to make sure that I'm explaining this correctly. I have an 85 GL (EA82) and the A/C doesn't work. I mean, it really doesn't work. When I hit the A/C switch, I can hear some vacuum of some sort like a small hissing noise but the compressor (condensor?) doesn't engage cuz the idle speed is not affected at all - (checked the unit under the hood, not moving.) And the blower doesn't pump out anything either. (on any speed). Does this sound more like a bad compressor? or is it perhaps a bad relay? Or bad fad switch? - by the way, I did check the fuses - (at least, the ones in the fuse box). Also, is there a way to troubleshoot the switches/relays (with a multimeter?) or should they just be replaced? Or am I going to have to bite the big one and buy a whole new compressor? :banghead: Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for all the questions, I really am a beginner.

 

--Aaron :confused:

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If your model is equipped with vacuum controls on the dash ( you can tell this by a hissing sound in the dash when you turn off the heater or air conditioner ) pull off the control panel and check the vacuum servo motors and lever and cable operation. I recommend picking up the Haynes manual 89003. Section 3-10 gives a nice treatment of the vacuum controls.

 

Belt is okay right?

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Thanks, Russell. - Here's the funny thing. Yes, the a/c belt is ok. The controls do make a hissing noise when pushed, but the compressor doesn't kick on. Plus, the fan doesn't work on any speed. When I set the thing to Heat, I can feel the heat building up behind and below the dash, but no fan - I've been using the "vent" to blow air in :mad: . Does this sound more like a relay problem for the compressor? Or perhaps faulty wiring / connections? I'll check the blower motor by hooking directly to battery and see if it works at least. Thanks for the reply.

 

Aaron

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You can test the blower motor operation with the vehicle ignition in the run position but without the vehicle running. If the motor is spinning you should be able to hear it. I don't think I would remove it quite yet. From your first post I would guess it's not spinning at all... If it is not you can check the electrical connectors (green/white on mine) at the motor for a voltage with the heater controls on. As far as the compressor relay, it would be my opinion the problem is located somewhere else if the heater controls are not working properly either.

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Check the fan for operation, or just see if it is getting voltage.

 

I was in the same boat as submonkey, my entier system was dry as a bone so the pressure switch would not engage thus the system prevented the compressor from running.

 

I was able to jump the compressor and look in the sight glass, (glass window on the black soda bottle looking thing by the pass headlight) sure enough NO fluid. Hope this helps you get a handle on things.

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Well everyone thanks for all the help. I was able to take a few minutes to try to figure out this darn thing and using my multimeter and it seems like there is no power to the blower! I will have to check the charge but I doubt that it is low as it was blowing ice cold a few weeks ago then just up and stopped. Would anyone know how I can troubleshoot the relays to eliminate them as a possible suspect? :-\

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first off there are two types of systems hitachi and matsuhuita. I believe the hitachi is the larger compressor.

 

no mater which one you have it sounds like you are losing voltage somewhere as you say that the compresor clutch will not engauge and the blower is inop.

 

so its a common power source. start at the fusible links on the fender. I belive its the black one. then it goes thru the ignition switch to fuses # 1,2,12,15 all a/c and blower related stuff. I will guess you will find a problem by this point if not you have multiple problems all at once (dont really think so). check this and get back to us.

 

oh yeah when checking fuses and fuse links a meter or test light is best dont just look at it and say "its not poped it must be good" and do your testing with the key ON.

 

oh and for that blower relay

blue and red is the main power in to the switching side

red and yellow is the power to the relay coil

red and white is ground side of coil (control side)

green and white is power out to the blower motor AND the A/C relay. so if the blower relay no go then no A/C relay either.

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I had same problem. As other posters have stated, there is a pressure switch in the system. If you're refridgerant is too low (or even empty) relay will not send the current required to engage the compressor clutch. I started to add some R-134, and found my cracked hose. One new hose, an evac, and a couple of pounds of refridgerant sent me on my way.

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Again, thanks for the replies. I am a little confused, however. A few of you have mentioned that it may be caused by low volume of refrigerant. Wouldn't this not affect the blower motor, just the compressor? (Because low refrigerant shouldn't affect the heater, right?) I've checked out the fuses with my multimeter also and all circuits are functioning normally as far as I can tell (I'm not an electrician, mind you). Could anyone tell me where the relays are located or even better a pic of them? Thanks! :grin:

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see my last post about the refrigerant charge. yes you are correct.

as for the relay location look by the right side strut tower sorry no pic. find the one with wire collors that match. there are more than one relay in this system but I am leading you to this one because it is common to both the a/c and blower system.

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Thanks, rallyruss! I'll check them out. Can you tell me by chance is there a way I can either short across the relay or test it with a multimeter? I don't want to have to break down and just buy another only to find it was good all along. :rolleyes:

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May want to check the blower motor resisters also, i would think it would run on high even if they were all dead but may want to check it out. Its a small box like thing in the vent just below the motor with three blue(i think...i'm color blind) wiers coming out of it. that would cause the blower problem, i have no idea about the compressor probably 2 seperat problems especialy if the heat doesn't work.

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the blower relay provides power to the A/C relay IE no power to blower no power to A/C.definately can be the same problem.

troubleshooting

use the descriptions and wire collors to help you.

if blue and red has power jump it to green and white. this will bypass the relay for testing purposes. if this works move on to the control side of the relay.

verify that you have power on red and yellow. if yes ground red and white(with relay hooked up) does relay turn on?

there is more but even just checking voltages at the relay can tell you alot. let me know what you find . PM if you need more help.

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ok so I checked out the relays located above the right (passenger) side strut tower and if I'm not mistaken there are two there. when I disconnect one, the subfan (the secondary fan on the radiator) turns off. The other one I'm not sure what it does but I switched them and no effect. I pulled the wires to the blower motor out and traced it back to this little harness/box where there are like 30 wires connecting. I'll probably have to rip that out as well and trace back to find the short / bad switch / relay. It was wierd cuz the air was always cold when the a/c was working (so I thought the freon level was good) but the blower kept kicking on and off (so maybe a small leak? causing level to go below normal). Now blower doesn't work at all, nor does compressor - just sits like a freakin rock.

 

I'll probably have to take it to the mechanics to check for freon level. Too bad R-12 :(

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the rad fan should turn on when you disconnect one wire on the sensor with 2 spade connectors, with the car truned on

the climate control fan is controlled by the push button controller, then the speed switch, sounds like yours is bad, but try other positions bilev, def

the vent button was only in non ac cars

you can easily remove the blower motor to find out if it still works, beware of screws that like to hide

speed 4 is supposed to be a direct current feed to the blower motor, bypasses the resistors

there are two fuses for the blower motor in the fuse box, both are blue and right next to each other in the top row middle, iirc

been there, done that

pm or post if you need help

welcome to the board

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aronlove, once you figure out the blower prob it's very easy to switch from r12 to the r134 if that's the right #. In my 85 it was bone dry, and all i did was buy a install kit at walmart 20-30 dollars, hook up, start car with a.c. on and after it got enough pressure compressor engaged. After that i realized the belt wasn't tight enough to keep compressor engaged so tightend it and it was fine. sorry can't help with blower motor but once you do get it working it will be a lot cheaper using r134. Good luck Jay

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Thanks all,

 

yeah I'll hook up the blower motor directly and see if it even spins. I've already replaced the climate control once in this darn car so maybe again? The fuses in the fuse panel are all good by the way. (thanks subie85) but starting to think it might be the climate control panel - maybe was hooked up wrong or something fell off :(

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Well, I finally was able to check the blower motor directly to the battery (actually, I just unhooked the wires from the trunk light and plugged it in there, what the heck, same harness size) and it works. So that got me to thinking it must either be the relays or the switch. I pulled the relays off and switched them around and lo and behold the a/c compressor kicked on - also can see bubbles in the little sight glass on the canister :) So I'll need a new relay at least.

 

Drove it around for a little while - I can feel the cold air flowing slowly out of the vents (I have the "vent" slides set to on.) but air is not being blown.

So now the problem is, the blower motor won't turn on (on any fan speed). I'm going to have to take the dash apart and make sure the darn fan speed switch is even hooked up right!

 

Any other ideas?

 

Thanks to everyone who has left messages!

 

I'm halfway there! :headbang:

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  • 1 month later...

I'm having the same problem with the same year vehicle and I know it's not the relays. Have another '85 and yanked the relays out of that one, put the relays from the non-working unit in it and it works fine. Non-working blower-A/C didn't work with good relays. So I'm stumped.

 

As Rallyruss noted, I can get the blower fan (on the 3/4 speeds it normally operates at) to work by jumping the green/white to the blue. On that relay, I have power to the blue. On the other relay, I have power to the yellow and blue/white.

 

(My wiring colors are different than specified by Rallyruss. On the brown relay I have blue/white, yellow, black, black. On the black relay I have green/white, blue, blue/yellow, red/black.)

 

Fan switch is fine. Main control switch ... who knows? Not sure how to test it. Slide switch is not smooth. Feels like some plastic from the guide rails has broken off recently.

 

Some history, in the few weeks before it tanked, everytime I put on the fan, I could see the voltmeter drop a volt or two. Once I cut it off, the volt meter would register normal volts (12-13.5). Also, this is the vehicle that had the loose black fusible link wire connector. Fuses and links are fine.

 

Rallyruss ... would be happy to give you readings, just tell me where to get them from and I'll get my multimeter out.

 

HELP!!!! I'm a fat man in Louisiana and I needs my A/C!!! (Plus, it helps to have it when the windshield fogs up. Cops are starting to look at me strange as I peer through the Smiley Face I've made on the fogged-up glass during rainstorms.)

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