loyale1993 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Has anyone done this? What size helicoil do I use? Are there any alternatives like tapping the existing holes and using larger bolts? I replaced the mickey mouse seal almost 2 years ago and now the other day I discovered a leak at the oil pump. When I did the re-seal I may have stripped the bolt holes because I over torqued them. I did have to replace a couple bolts because they were stripped. I'm hoping that the seal has gone bad and the bolt holes are fine. I just want to get some information incase of the worst. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Tons of times M6 x 1.00 threads. An alternate method to repair: 1. chase the existing threads with a M6x1.000 tap to clean them all up. 2. install longer bolts - the holes/threads are longer than the original bolts so a longer bolt will reach new/untapped threads at the bottom. Use a coat hanger or other similar "measuring" stick to get a feel for how deep the holes are and compare to the stock bolts. If you get a bolt just a tad too long - that bottoms out - put a washer under the head to shim out the distance. I'm sure there's probably a standard sized hole/thread/tap that you can just tap that existing hole out too as well, just need to mic or google the dimensions. Or yes - drill it out and helicoil - it's annoying working in tight spaces in front of the engine but it can be done. I've used a right angle drill or drill attachment (much cheaper - harbor freight). The drill bit will be too long to work with in front of the engine. Put drill bit rigidly in a vice or other set-up such that you can SMACK the crap out of it - high speed swing is key. swing a hefty hammer as hard/fast as you can and the drill bit will shear in half. be advised, wear goggles and the sheared off end will bounce, fly, and careen off concrete so ideally shear it off into a suitable entrapment (pile of clothes?). While hard, drill bits are brittle and will break with enough speed (think concrete blocks - very strong but easily breakable) Shearing them off makes them short enough to use in front of the engine compartment. You might not have a straight shank to chuck in the drill - but just try it in a few orientations...in other words install the bit...if it's not straight...loosen and rotate it a few degrees...install again...repeat until it's straight. it's really simple, takes seconds and awkward to explain with words - but just make sure the bit is straight in the drill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhelme Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 There is probably not enough material to oversize the bolts but it should be fairly easy to helicoil them. I don't know the size right off hand although I have it and have used them but not for the oil pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Pretty sure the bolts are steel, so you most likely did no damage to the threads on the bolt. It's the threads on the aluminum block that are most likely damaged. Not that that matters. Find out the thread size pitch that it is stock, Google the very next bigger size, buy that size tap kit, drill it out with the correct size bit for that tap, tap it, install new bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 becareful to not drill any deeper, if i remember correctly in another thread, something flows literally right behind those holes, if you have one of those drill bits that has that extra point on the end of it, make sure to compensate for that length also. i've broken the bolts on the oil pump before but never stripped the block threads, good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyale1993 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Tons of times M6 x 1.00 threads. An alternate method to repair: 1. chase the existing threads with a M6x1.000 tap to clean them all up. 2. install longer bolts - the holes/threads are longer than the original bolts so a longer bolt will reach new/untapped threads at the bottom. Use a coat hanger or other similar "measuring" stick to get a feel for how deep the holes are and compare to the stock bolts. If you get a bolt just a tad too long - that bottoms out - put a washer under the head to shim out the distance. I'm sure there's probably a standard sized hole/thread/tap that you can just tap that existing hole out too as well, just need to mic or google the dimensions. Or yes - drill it out and helicoil - it's annoying working in tight spaces in front of the engine but it can be done. I've used a right angle drill or drill attachment (much cheaper - harbor freight). The drill bit will be too long to work with in front of the engine. Put drill bit rigidly in a vice or other set-up such that you can SMACK the crap out of it - high speed swing is key. swing a hefty hammer as hard/fast as you can and the drill bit will shear in half. be advised, wear goggles and the sheared off end will bounce, fly, and careen off concrete so ideally shear it off into a suitable entrapment (pile of clothes?). While hard, drill bits are brittle and will break with enough speed (think concrete blocks - very strong but easily breakable) Shearing them off makes them short enough to use in front of the engine compartment. You might not have a straight shank to chuck in the drill - but just try it in a few orientations...in other words install the bit...if it's not straight...loosen and rotate it a few degrees...install again...repeat until it's straight. it's really simple, takes seconds and awkward to explain with words - but just make sure the bit is straight in the drill. Thanks for this info! I will see if I have the M-6 tap in my collection tonight. I would like to not use helicoils if I can get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyale1993 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Pretty sure the bolts are steel, so you most likely did no damage to the threads on the bolt. It's the threads on the aluminum block that are most likely damaged. Not that that matters. Find out the thread size pitch that it is stock, Google the very next bigger size, buy that size tap kit, drill it out with the correct size bit for that tap, tap it, install new bolts. I remember I messed up the threads on the bolts when I over torqued them and I had to replace a couple of them. I don't know if the bolts are steel or not but the threads were definitely jacked up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 The original bolts would be steel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Thanks for this info! I will see if I have the M-6 tap in my collection tonight. I would like to not use helicoils if I can get away with it. i've done quite a few so i can't recall but i don't think i've done it for oil pumps - but i've done it for nearly every other component on the front of a Subaru engine - 10mm cam cap bolts, 10mm water pump bolts, and a bunch of timing component bolts on the front of the engines and more elsewhere. it works most of the time - get the bolt as long as you can. you don't *have* to clean the threads with a tap - but if they're messed up it is wise to chase them. i've definitely just tossed in longer bolts without chasing if i don't have access or it's a rather simple part. usually i chase though just to be sure. honestly I wouldn't even be scared to leave one of the oil pump bolts out - depending which one it is. there's quite a few bolts on that pump, it's sealed around the body, and i bet it would hold with like 3 bolts in total without issue. i wouldnt' think twice about leaving one out if i had no other choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyale1993 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 And honestly I am just speculating on the threads being stripped. I don't know for sure because I put the timing covers back on.... Really wished I didn't do that now. So in a couple weeks I will tear into it and see what I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) about the timing covers, im still wondering that myself if they even do much, and if it jumps out of time by some rock, its not like its going to bend valves anytime soon on the EA-82. i only have 1 top bolt on the left cover, 1 on the right cover, and 2 on the middle cover and i cut some of the cover with a dremel so i don't have to remove the harmonic balancer and some other stupid stuff like around the water pump and such, its been a while so i don't remember too much. but there are people that run without them and it literally takes about 15minutes to change the belts without covers. so thats why i sort of have them on. Edited November 5, 2015 by Subasaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I got about 50k out of a set of belts that were run entirely with no covers on.So, they did break 10k premature, but it's up for debate as to what caused it.I still can't believe that we got the loyale with 51,051 miles on it only like 7 years ago and it now has 107k. Such a beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I don't recommend helicoils for bolts that you intend to tighten up real good. You should use one piece threaded inserts, because no matter how little thread you have engaged inside of the insert, the entire length of the insert is grabbing the base material. The helicoils are made of individual spiral wires. The wires do not all work together. The only wires that grab the base material, are the same ones that your bolt engaged. Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdweninger Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 a cutoff wheel works great for shortening drill bits ... much safer ... but much hotter ... wear glove or let cool down. timing covers gotta go. no way a 'rock' is going to get in there while they are spinning (I have tried it, just for fun) Just have to be careful with antifreeze and oil re-fills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Just have to be careful with antifreeze and oil re-fills. eats the rubber on the timing belt or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 After being a long time no covers skeptic, I have been running without them for many years now. Have had no trouble. It seems like the idlers last longer. Maybe because more cooling from air blowing by everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyale1993 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 When a take the timing belt covers off to inspect my oil pump leak I will be leaving them off. For one, they probably won't survive another removal and two, I think the benefit of having access to everything in the front of the engine is more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) eats the rubber on the timing belt or something? probably - i've seen a brand new belt with only a few months on it break after having a fair amount of oil on it from a leaking crank seal. it was a lot - like covered in parts - not just drops. there's a small chance it was just a "bad new belt" of course but i've never seen/heard of a new belt breaking so i think it's more likely the oil degraded the materials. Edited November 10, 2015 by grossgary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I had a new belt fail really early once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I don't recommend helicoils for bolts that you intend to tighten up real good. You should use one piece threaded inserts, because no matter how little thread you have engaged inside of the insert, the entire length of the insert is grabbing the base material. The helicoils are made of individual spiral wires. The wires do not all work together. The only wires that grab the base material, are the same ones that your bolt engaged. Big difference. You're talking about Timeserts. You can buy right off their website. We only use their products, never, EVER helicoil. Immeasurably better product. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdweninger Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 +1 on the Timeserts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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