matt167 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I've done a few ej22e,s but never an interference sohc. How do I safely rotate the cams and crank without hitting valves. I seem to remember that with the crank lined up on the mark, all cylinders are below top dead center. I'm considering bumping the engine over with belt in place till they are on the marks.. That seems safest. I'm just doing the belt and 3 idlers. Engine has oil pressure issues and a cold knock. Just have to keep the heads safe so I can use them on my spare short block when time comes. Gonna borrow tensioner from same block since it had a fresh complete timing job when I bought the car it came in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Is the belt already removed? Did the belt break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I'm sorta confused as to what you're doing, but to answer your question: With the crank at the alignment mark (the dash NOT THE ARROW), the cylinders are all in the middle of their stroke and thus it is impossible to crash the valves into them. Spin the cams to your heart's content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 No engine is still running and togther. I have to do the belt soon. I just didn't want to bend valves rotating pistons into them or vice verse..i thought lining up the crank to the mark put pistions in middle stroke. So ill just bump the engine over till its at the mark and do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) BETTER TO USE A 22MM? VSOCKET and breaker bar ON THE CRANK PULLEY BOLT, AND ROTATE IT BY HAND UNTIL IT IS LINED UP. USING THE STARTER IS NOT ACCURATE AND WILL TAKE A LOT OF LUCK TO GET RIGHT. and given your lack of knowledge, i recommend buying a manual at the parts store and reading up. sorry for the caps, to tired to re-type. Edited February 22, 2016 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Yea, that makes sense to use the bolt and turn it manually. I've got the forester FSM on my computer. I just wanted to make sure I didn't bend valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Just looked at the manual. took me a while to find the timing belt section since the one I got does not have split files... Looks just like the procedure for an EJ22E minus the tensioner so I guess I'm good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Half way into this. Last belt job was either an incompetant shop or a DIY'er without good tools.. 3 of the bolts on the timing cover were rounded with obvious tool marks, so they were put back in that way. I couldn't get them out. a bottom bolt was purposly broken away from the cover and has obviously never been out, and the cover was quite cracked and destroyed anyway. So I just busted it off the car. I'll extract the bolts without the cover since access is better and I'll grab a new cover. There only $60.. Timing also looks like it was not spot on. IDK drivers side cam looks to be a few degrees retarded when the passanger side and crank are lined up. It runs fine like that but makes me wonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Put all the marks straight up and count the teeth between the crank mark and the cam marks. Should be 44 teeth on the passenger side and 47 on the driver side. The engine will have a stumble if the timing is off, I bought an outback that didn't run well really cheap because some idiot put the timing belt back on wrong... The timing cover bolts sometimes really suck to get out in one piece. They rust and seize up causing one or more of four things to happen: They stick in the plastic cover and break it when you try to take them out. The heads round off. They break off in the block (because the back of the threads are exposed and lets them rust...). Or on the end caps they stick in the threaded insert in the back cover and rip them out, breaking the timing cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 I got it in today. Waiting on the cover to come in tomorrow. I counted the ribs to 44/47 and lined it up. Almost had it off a tooth because I was using a hash mark right next to the real mark on the pass side. Had the belt off and on more than a few times.. Had to read the diagram quite a few times before I picked up on it.. But its in all lined up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Got the car together and it has to come back apart... Evidently belt has some slack. Runs perfect but I can hear belt flap on the timing covers. Think the tensioners bad. Borrowed a brand new tensioner from a ej25d that had a complete timing service right before I pulled it due to headgaskets and replaced with a 2.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Is there any special way to install tensioner? I just positioned the piston over the rub block where it goes and locked it down.. Pretty sure tensioner is really bad but making sure. I'm used to old style tensioner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 You're installing a new style tensioner? Compress it in the installed position (up and down), put an allen key or something in the lock holes. If it's leaking fluid out of the piston it's bad. Install the tensioner, timing belt, etc. When you're ready just pull the pin and give it a few minutes to take up slack. That's all that's to it... If the tensioner doesn't take up the slack, yea, it's bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 timing marks and tooth count are your friends - the marks on the new belt can be a slightly off and confusing - then, when you test everything by rotating the crank twice, those marks are gone and won't line-up again for hundreds of turns. get it on, rotate 2 times and see if all the cam marks line up with proper tooth count, pull the tensioner pin, rotate 2x again, check the marks and tooth count. better to be overly cautious now, than regretful later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Yup, I did all that. I counted the belt marks 44\47 which is what the lines match up as. Its a mitsoboshi belt which I understand is one of the better ones. The only thing I didn't do is rotate it over before I pulled the pin.. But I checked to line up on the marks twice ( 4 rotations iirc ) after I pulled the pin and it was good.. Its running perfect, except I can hear the belt flapping on the cover.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) when you re-compress the tensioners, if you do it too quickly, the seals can go bad. probably a new tensioner required. (I used a M'boshi on my WRX, glad I changed the toothed idler too, it was very loose and a little wobbly.) Edited March 3, 2016 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The belt doesn't have enough slack to hit the cover. If something was that loose it would jump timing and bend valves. You may be hearing a loose tensioner jumping around a little bit or something else, but the belt isn't hitting the cover unless maybe you forgot the bottom idler on the passenger side.... And even then, yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) Well, its a vibration on the pass side head. Sounds like a belt flap.. The cover is brand new too. The old one was broken badly. Bottom idler is definitely on. I made sure everything was right and tight before putting the cover on. All the idlers were wobbly. I used gmb idlers.. Edited March 3, 2016 by matt167 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 maybe pull the cover and look for a 'rubbed' spot - observe the belt while running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 That's what I plan on. Have a new tensioner coming in later today too.. Hopefully I can do like jack lalane did. Set it and forget it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subnz Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) Once crank timing marks lined up (piston are at mid-stroke) so its safe to rotate cams (SOHC only) after taking off belt. DOHC - valve to valve interference on each side if rotate cams after belt off. Its really important to replace all 3 idler pulleys and tensioner (most important). Do no reuse old ones as these are the 1st things to fail destroying belt and engine. The old T belt can look ok but its not worth the risk to reuse - particularly in an interference engine. A full belt kit ($200?) is nothing compared to $1000 / $2000 dollars to repair/ replace blown engine Edited March 3, 2016 by subnz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 I put GMB rollers in it, but the engine needs overhauled so I didn't want to put much more in it. Just keep the heads safe so when it finally blows, I can swap my other short block in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 The belt was flopping into itself on the cogged side. Damaged it a it a little... It was obviously pretty loose. Weird thing is, when I loosened tensioner, it clicked down more and belt tightened.. I still changed it cause the new tensioner, a beck arnley has a bushing, both old tensioners do not.. Waiting on another belt because it seems stretched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Anti-seize is your very best friend. Buy a tube of it and throw in your tool box. When installing the new cover, apply some to each bolt, and make sure the cover holes have some on their inner surface. A little dab goes a REALLY long way, so no need to over do it. Used it on any thing attached to the engine that doesn't require thread locker instead. Next time you need to pull a cover, 5 ft/lbs and every bolt should crack free. Consider replacing the junk bolts too. Can also use it on bolts/screws that thread into the plastic radiator sections including fan assembly. Mine had none, and was a nightmare too. Edited March 4, 2016 by Bushwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) I replaced the junk bolts. I'm lucky that I kept the spare EJ25D thru the time that I did not even have a Subaru, and all the bolts on that which were the same were perfect. the short bolts on the engine in the car were fine to use.. I havn't actually run into stuck bolts on this car, just bolts with rounded heads due to someone else. Nothing that a set of Irwin Gator Grips won't take care of. Edited March 4, 2016 by matt167 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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