wotdsm Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 I have a gates timing belt kit that I put on less than 20k miles ago. My car is 5 speed swapped and I have the guide installed over the crank pulley. I downshifted to pass a car yesterday on the freeway and immediately felt like I hit fuel cut. CEL started flashing, car barely kept up with traffic, bucking and hesitating violently. I figured it was something with the timing. I got home and pulled the cover off to find my crank pulley skipped a tooth. How is that possible with a newer timing belt kit and with that guide installed? I used the red spacer between the belt and guide per the gates instructions. But FWIW, I have compressed the tensioner a handful of times to remove and reinstall it but it is not leaking a drop of hydraulic fluid. Should I replace the belt kit or just re-time it and chalk this up to a fluke event that will probably never happen again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 What style tensioner do you have? What timing kit did you install? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Sorry, I guess this was a broad post lacking relevant information! 99 Forester. EJ25 SOHC I put TCK304 on there so it's the new style tensioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 How did you compress the tensioner? It's not difficult to compress it too quickly and blow it. Whatever spacer you used must have been too thick. With the guide installed correctly, the belt cannot skip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Used a c-clamp. Tried to stick with the three minute compression time frame the FSM specifies. Gave the c-clamp a turn, waited 30 seconds, gave it a turn, waited, repeated about 4-5 times. Is there a spec for the distance between the guide and the belt? I'd rather use a feeler gauge instead of the big red Gates spacer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Did you replace your water pump and idler as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Yep. All those components were replaced at the time I did the timing belt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 I would replace the belt, get a different brand, and tell Gates about it. Where did you source the kit from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 someone on a Forum recently reported a new toothed idler that was wobbling. I'd check everything - also,maybe a bolt wasn't torqued holding an idler or is stripped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Man I torqued checked each bolt about 3 times. That's a great idea about telling Gates, I never thought of that. I will email and report back what they say. I bought the kit off of Rock Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 OK a legit supplier, i was wondering if it was an ebay counter-fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Used a c-clamp. Tried to stick with the three minute compression time frame the FSM specifies. Gave the c-clamp a turn, waited 30 seconds, gave it a turn, waited, repeated about 4-5 times. Is there a spec for the distance between the guide and the belt? I'd rather use a feeler gauge instead of the big red Gates spacer. That should be fine. Spec is 1.0 mm give or take 0.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Well I reset timing and decided to take it for a spin. Started misfiring and bucking hardcore again! I also got a P0341 and I stumbled across a thread on NASIOC in which someone said their car threw that code when their timing belt jumped. I fear I jumped timing AGAIN!!! Hopefully it's just the cam sensor of which I have several spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 PS- Gates basically told me to go pound sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Tensioner is bad or the belt is too long. The guide over the crank sprocket is NOT there to maintain the belt on the pulley while the engine is running. Its to prevent the belt from jumping if the crankshaft rotates backwards during transport of the car when it was new. Repeated jumps means the tensioner has failed. 3 minutes to compress? That's too fast IMO. Even on the older style (which are much more reliable) I still take closer to 10 minutes. C clamp turning about 1/8 turn at a time. If you can feel the piston fighting back, you're turning too fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Hmmm....maybe do a tooth count on the belt to double check. any sign of rubbing/damage on the back of the belt? also, did the tensioner come with new pulley attached?, isn't there a way for the bolt on the tensiner pulley to be installed wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) No signs of rubbing at all. Yes I bought TCK304 which came with all new pulleys, a new belt, and a new tensioner. I will count teeth. I've never done that when doing belt installs. I usually just line all the marks up and ship it I guess I need to take that extra step when I replace T-belts Edited April 7, 2016 by wotdsm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 ok - could the keyway be damaged allowing the crank sprocket to rotate? just thinking outside the box here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 The guide over the crank sprocket is NOT there to maintain the belt on the pulley while the engine is running. Its to prevent the belt from jumping if the crankshaft rotates backwards during transport of the car when it was new. Repeated jumps means the tensioner has failed. Well...it's not just for that. The engine can spin backwards while parked and in gear, it can also prevent belt jumping should you try to bump-start the car (we had a WRX in last week that had recently had a timing belt installed somewhere else with the guide way to far out, and they bump started it, and the timing jumped several teeth and caused valve damage.). Correctly installed, the belt should not be able to jump, under any circumstances. But, your point remains, that just driving down the road, that guide shouldn't come into play. The TCK304 should be the correct one, we install a couple of those a month, and I don't believe we've ever had an issue with one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I I have compressed the tensioner a handful of times my crank pulley skipped a tooth. i don't even see a question here: replace the tensioner. i'd recommend a new belt while you're at it and personally i'd just install another kit unless the pulleys feel superb, tight with grease. what prompted the frequent tensioner removal/compressing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) i don't even see a question here: replace the tensioner. i'd recommend a new belt while you're at it and personally i'd just install another kit unless the pulleys feel superb, tight with grease. what prompted the frequent tensioner removal/compressing? When I first bought my car I installed a 2.2 in it because I had the engine already and the engine that came with my car had warped heads and blown head gaskets. When I swapped the engine I did the timing belt. Fast forward a year I came up with a 2.5 for cheap. I swapped my timing kit from the 2.2 on to the 2.5. Well it turned out too good to be true because the "new" (used) 2.5 had a knock. I found a known good running 2.5 that I eventually sourced (that is currently in my car) so I put the timing kit on that engine. So my tensioner has been compressed and removed a total of thrice as it sits now. And that's what I was thinking as well as far as ordering a complete new kit... While I'm in there and spending the money and time I'll replace all the pulleys too. Just wish Gates would have helped me out a little since I only got a few thousand miles out of the kit. Granted compressing the tensioner several times could be the reason the belt failed Edited April 7, 2016 by wotdsm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) but, didn't a fairly bit 'wrinkle' still have to go under that guide? just not certain Gates is to blame here. Edited April 7, 2016 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 I also compressed the tensioner once when I swapped from the original engine to the 2.2 because I forgot to swap the cam and crank sprockets. So make that 4 times the tensioner has been compressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotdsm Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Gates included a red spacer doo-hickey that you're supposed to place on the belt and then bolt the guide over top of. It seems that the red doo-hickey is too thick as my belt shouldn't have even skipped with it installed! But still I think the general consensus is correct, compressing the tensioner after install once is asking for problems down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Was the crankshaft the only one that was off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.