XHighOctanex Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 It does depend on how you drive it. But I have a friend that put a stock EJ22 in his lifted EA82 chassis and went through about 4 transmissions. It's a LOT more power than the EA82. Like virtually double if you go to the EJ25. Saying you won't use the power is like saying you won't eat more than one Dorito. Never. Happened. The high comp EJ25 that went into the rally brat had so much power it permanently distorted the unibody and the doors didn't close right anymore. Had to 8 point cage the whole thing. It wasnt even really driveable with the D/R. We put an AWD trans in it before the D/R gave out. It would chirp ALL 4 tires going into 3rd.... The EA bodies are very light and the torque of the EJ is a lot - they just aren't stiff. GD I have the same motor as my dad's gutless na 03 outback and that thing is almost as bad on on ramps as my car. I'm more worried about the life of my axles than my trans. I'm sure once in a while I'll romp it onto the freeway or whatever, but this car already gets driven as close to a granny mobile as I can get. I don't see 160hp shredding a trans, short of dumping the clutch in 4lo on pavement. At that point it's a paper weight not a transmissions. Now if that trans gives out under light driving and like I said the occasional on ramp or rock climb or hill climb. Then I'll let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 It's all about power to weight ratio. And torque has more to do with breaking things than HP. EJ engines make a lot of it at lower RPM. Especially the 4" bore 2.5. They breathe a lot of air down low and if you run EJ22 heads the small intake port diameter will magnify the low end torque....It may seem slow in that pig of an outback but that's not an EA chassis geared for 85 HP. The gearing makes a huge difference. It creates lots of opportunity for shock loading and the low RPM torque capability of the 2.5 will put great strain on the drivetrain. Trust me - you will have a VERY hard time keeping the front wheels from spinning on take off and through second and third. You will come to the same conclusion we did - need AWD or it's just not controllable. Subaru moved to AWD primarily because of the massive increase in torque output of the EJ. It just made a terrible FWD engine. Anyone that has driven a first gen Legacy 2.2 FWD can tell you.... It was a really bad idea. Just a little throttle and the front wheels go nuts. It's not a Honda engine that makes no low end power.... It has tremendous grunt for such a little engine. It also has no top end compared to other Japanese 4's.... mostly due to really poor intake, exhaust, and head ports. They just don't flow up high well. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 It's all about power to weight ratio. And torque has more to do with breaking things than HP. EJ engines make a lot of it at lower RPM. Especially the 4" bore 2.5. They breathe a lot of air down low and if you run EJ22 heads the small intake port diameter will magnify the low end torque....It may seem slow in that pig of an outback but that's not an EA chassis geared for 85 HP. The gearing makes a huge difference. It creates lots of opportunity for shock loading and the low RPM torque capability of the 2.5 will put great strain on the drivetrain. Trust me - you will have a VERY hard time keeping the front wheels from spinning on take off and through second and third. You will come to the same conclusion we did - need AWD or it's just not controllable. Subaru moved to AWD primarily because of the massive increase in torque output of the EJ. It just made a terrible FWD engine. Anyone that has driven a first gen Legacy 2.2 FWD can tell you.... It was a really bad idea. Just a little throttle and the front wheels go nuts. It's not a Honda engine that makes no low end power.... It has tremendous grunt for such a little engine. It also has no top end compared to other Japanese 4's.... mostly due to really poor intake, exhaust, and head ports. They just don't flow up high well. GD If this is the case why does everyone switch to an ej in these old cars and love them? They can't sell be stocking up on transmissions and just swapping them regularly. From what I've seen on here and anywhere reading about these cars you always ej swap and never look back, I haven't once read about someone destroying their drivetrain driving normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Early ej motors 1.8 and 2.2 were around 130 hp. The power has increased over time and some of the combination builds make more power. I think he was mostly speaking of the higher output ones. Not that a 40hp jump isnt still a large enough jump to strain running gear. I chose a ej1.8 for my swap, good mileage and a sizeable increase in power. Ive heard numbers thrown about saying 150 hp is what the trans can handle, but I cant speak to the truth of it. Im sure GD would know more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Scott Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 You just need to use an EJ transmission. I know AWD has its own set of disadvantages too. Too bad we can't have RWD/4WD like trucks. Any EA car with power is horrible to drive with just the front wheels. The front end raises up and the torque-steer is awful. You have to keep a deathgrip on the wheel, and if one side hits a patch of sand, it lunges sideways. Driving is too much work... no fun at all! I used to take the front halfshafts out of my turbo hatch 9 months out of the year back in Indiana, now THAT was FUN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) The high comp 2.5 is in the neighborhood of 180 HP. It shreds 5 speed D/R transmissions. And axles... etc. Most people are using old worn out 2.2's and they aren't even making the stock 135 HP. Much less likely but still capable of tearing up drivetrain. What Scott said about the EA's with power is completely true. They don't handle it well at all. The front end rise when you punch it on the freeway feels like you are tillering a boat, the torque steer is worse than a turbo Honda.... They just weren't setup for it. GD Edited July 20, 2017 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The high comp 2.5 is in the neighborhood of 180 HP. It shreds 5 speed D/R transmissions. And axles... etc. Most people are using old worn out 2.2's and they aren't even making the stock 135 HP. Much less likely but still capable of tearing up drivetrain. What Scott said about the EA's with power is completely true. They don't handle it well at all. The front end rise when you punch it on the freeway feels like you are tillering a boat, the torque steer is worse than a turbo Honda.... They just weren't setup for it. GD So basically these cars are crap for a base to build and everyone who wants to have decent power and offroad with true 4wd dual ranges needs to scrap the subaru plan and head to trucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsyme Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I have to say I'm really torn. I have a 1992 loyale that I'm ready to do the 2" lift & 6 lug conversion to hubs. I have a rusted out 89GL with D/R trans that I intend move to the 92 loyale. Before this tread started, I intended to build both cars as a father son son daughter experience in the Colorado Sand Dunes, but the 89 GL needs SOOOO much work to get alive again. she's just going to be parts soon. I tried to install tinted windows last night on the rear hatch, but it ended up TERRIBLE, so I removed it. I might have $900 into both cars at this point & the 92 is my daily driver. There are some 1st Gen Legacys here for pretty cheap, fixable and tolerable shape in the 1,000 bill space. The $3000 space has the nicer cars for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I have to say I'm really torn. I have a 1992 loyale that I'm ready to do the 2" lift & 6 lug conversion to hubs. I have a rusted out 89GL with D/R trans that I intend move to the 92 loyale. Before this tread started, I intended to build both cars as a father son son daughter experience in the Colorado Sand Dunes, but the 89 GL needs SOOOO much work to get alive again. she's just going to be parts soon. I tried to install tinted windows last night on the rear hatch, but it ended up TERRIBLE, so I removed it. I might have $900 into both cars at this point & the 92 is my daily driver. There are some 1st Gen Legacys here for pretty cheap, fixable and tolerable shape in the 1,000 bill space. The $3000 space has the nicer cars for sure. 1st Gen legacys are great cars, I still want one alongside my ea. Personally I think the lifted and dual range swapped ea is cooler and more fun as a project. Why not transfer what's good on the gl to the loyale and then get a legacy with it? You'll still have 2 subarus and you'll have the best of both worlds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEECHBM69 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) So basically these cars are crap for a base to build and everyone who wants to have decent power and offroad with true 4wd dual ranges needs to scrap the subaru plan and head to trucks Yes, yes....... scrap the EA Subaru plan. Relieve yourselves of the stress and anguish of owning one. All I need is an address. Put the signed title over the visor, and I'll be along shortly with my trailer to help you out. Dan Edited July 20, 2017 by BEECHBM69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Yes, yes....... scrap the EA Subaru plan. Relieve yourselves of the stress and anguish of owning one. All I need is an address. Put the signed title over the visor, and I'll be along shortly with my trailer to help you out. Dan Nonono I don't generally listen to advice from others even if it's a good idea. This cat isn't leaving me until it's done and dead and been on many more adventures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 So basically these cars are crap for a base to build and everyone who wants to have decent power and offroad with true 4wd dual ranges needs to scrap the subaru plan and head to trucks Not exactly. It's fine within reason. But more than 3" of lift, and more than about 150 HP really starts to break things at an excessive rate. My lifted hatch still only has 74 HP, but with the T-case 10" lift it breaks front diffs and axles with fair regularity. I broke an axle trying to pull a bush out of the ground in my parking lot with it in 4 Lo/Lo. I hitched my 2WD '69 GMC truck to the same chain and basically lifted my foot off the clutch at idle and the bush nearly landed in the bed of my truck. I didn't even notice it back there. These cars are not far from their limit in stock form (breaking axles in stock form isn't difficult) and you add some additional tire load and heavy foot wheeling (because no gearing) and the drivetrain will give up the juice. It's just the reality of it. They are good for quite a bit of fun - but if you expect to install 4-5" of lift, and 180 HP worth of 2.5.... you're going to TEAR through parts. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Not exactly. It's fine within reason. But more than 3" of lift, and more than about 150 HP really starts to break things at an excessive rate. My lifted hatch still only has 74 HP, but with the T-case 10" lift it breaks front diffs and axles with fair regularity. I broke an axle trying to pull a bush out of the ground in my parking lot with it in 4 Lo/Lo. I hitched my 2WD '69 GMC truck to the same chain and basically lifted my foot off the clutch at idle and the bush nearly landed in the bed of my truck. I didn't even notice it back there. These cars are not far from their limit in stock form (breaking axles in stock form isn't difficult) and you add some additional tire load and heavy foot wheeling (because no gearing) and the drivetrain will give up the juice. It's just the reality of it. They are good for quite a bit of fun - but if you expect to install 4-5" of lift, and 180 HP worth of 2.5.... you're going to TEAR through parts. GD I'm at 2 inches lowering back down the subframe soon, I don't plan on going passed that height and only on 27s. The 04 forester sohc I believe made 160hp which is about max I'm expecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I'm at 2 inches lowering back down the subframe soon, I don't plan on going passed that height and only on 27s. The 04 forester sohc I believe made 160hp which is about max I'm expecting. go with an older 2.2 or 1.8 Plenty of torque for wheeling, and you won't be as likely break stuff. Plus 90-96 are non-interference. You don't want an interference engine in a wheeler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XHighOctanex Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 go with an older 2.2 or 1.8 Plenty of torque for wheeling, and you won't be as likely break stuff. Plus 90-96 are non-interference. You don't want an interference engine in a wheeler I would but I get 2.5s for free and my wiring harness is already trimmed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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