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Top dead center questions 88 GL

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Hey y’all. Couldn’t find info on this. I’m sure y’all will be able to help.

 

Just did my timing belts.

 

After installation I rotated the crank to 0 degrees.

 

Was following Miles Fox’s YouTube installation.

 

When I looked at the dizzy it was pointing to the 4th cylinder....not the first....

 

Any idea what I did wrong here?

 

Car still starts and goes, but has almost no acceleration....

 

Any help would be appreciated

 

Thanks

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hard to tell from what you said but you have to rotate after installing the first belt, before you install the second one, and its not based on the degree timing marks.  theres a seperate set of marks the look like 3 vertical lines on the flywheel.  use those for timing belt installs.  they are roughly on the opposite side of the degree marks but are a little off.  sometimes hard to see.

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Sorry was trying for a quick explanation.

 

I installed the first belt with cam dot facing up and crank set to the middle hash mark of the three you mentioned.

 

Rotated the crank one revolution.

 

Cam dot not facing down.

 

Installed the other belt (pass side) cam dot facing up on this crank.

 

Rotated crank again to 0 degrees as suggested by miles fox. A little less than 1 full revolution.

 

After this when I looked at the dissy it was pointing to the number 4 cylinder...not the first, but I think it should have been pointing to the first.

 

Question is what would cause it to point to number 4 instead of number 1?

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Turn it 3 more revolutions. Each TDC will point to another plug.

 

Re check the timing marks. Put the crank at the 3 lines. One cam dot should be uo, other down. One rotation of the crank they should swap.

Edited by DaveT

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Turn it 3 more revolutions. Each TDC will point to another plug.

 

Re check the timing marks. Put the crank at the 3 lines. One cam dot should be uo, other down. One rotation of the crank they should swap.

 

 

Thanks Dave. You're always killing it with the advise on here.

 

Is it essential begin at cylinder 1?

 

is it incorrect to finish and have the dissy point to cylinder 4?

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I never checked. Just put the crank and cams on their marks, slip in the belts and go. I've done it numerous times, could not be just lucky that many.

 

As long as the rotor is pointing to the cylinder that is at TDC it is going to run.

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I never checked. Just put the crank and cams on their marks, slip in the belts and go. I've done it numerous times, could not be just lucky that many.

 

As long as the rotor is pointing to the cylinder that is at TDC it is going to run.

 

Awesome looks like I've done everything right then.  I thought I was off a tooth, which was causing my acceleration problems.

 

gonna have to look else ware now.

 

I suspect the cat... :/

 

Thanks for chiming in Dave.  Much appreciated.

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Easy check for exhaust blockage - loosen the 4 nuts on the Y pipe to head studs.  Get a gap at least 1/4" or so.  It will be loud, but if you have normal power, the exhaust is blocked.  If the performance does not change, it is something else.

 

The O2 sensor and the ECU won't care or know until the engine is up to normal temperature.  All you need is a short drive to check for normal power.

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I assume it ran fine before, and you didnt mess with the dizzy or wires?

 

its easy to get a little bit of slop in the belts when you install them.  I point the the cam marks up, then back them up just a little by hand (1/2 -1 tooth) to get the belt to slide on easy.  then I hand turn it to remove the slack in the side opposite the tensioner before adjusting the tensioners. end result should be no major slop in the long side of the belt and cam mark up.  if you get the belt on when the cam is in perfect place but theres slack on the long side, the tensioners can pull it a tooth or so out of place once everything settles in.   you dont want to get them super tight so dont use tools, just make sure there is tension in the belt.

 

nothing is more likely to be messed up than what you just messed with, so I would double check the belt marks now that it is ran and see if they still line up right.  with the marks set see if you can hand crank the cam sprocket.  should have little play if any.

 

also after your done let the car run for a minute or so and then reset the tensioners.  not a must but lets everything settle into its place.

Edited by djellum
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dropped the Y pipe and no change in performance.

 

No acceleration going up hill.

 

On flat it's okay, but still very little acceleration.

 

The loss of power happened initially while I was driving on the highway.

 

All the sudden it didn't want to accelerate or climb hills.

 

I have changed the timing belts and checked for a blocked Cat.  Still the same issues.

 

Fuel pump seems to be working. voltage to pump checks out normal.

 

Haven't done a pressure test yet.

 

New cap and rotor are coming today.

 

I'll report back if I solve my power issues.

 

I know this thread isn't about my power issues, so I'll make a new one with questions that pop up. Any help would be appreciated. Sounds like you might be having similar issues Dave. I did notice today while driving that it sounds like it's stumbling a bit. Maybe I'm just still off a tooth or something. I'll pull the belts and re-set them tomorrow if new cap and rotor don't solve my issue.

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Turn it 3 more revolutions. Each TDC will point to another plug.

 

Re check the timing marks. Put the crank at the 3 lines. One cam dot should be uo, other down. One rotation of the crank they should swap.

 

Close, but not correct.  Each revolution of the crank brings two of the cylinders through TDC on compression, Then as the crank goes round again, the other two will comeup through TDC on  compression.

 

IF you set it top TDC on #1, then Turn crank one rotation the next time it will point at cyl 2. Turn once more and it iwll be back on cyl 1

 

TDC for cyls 3 and 4 happens 180 degrees of crank opposite from TDC for the other 2.  but only one cylinder at a time is on it's compression stroke.

 

 

dropped the Y pipe and no change in performance.

 

No acceleration going up hill.

 

On flat it's okay, but still very little acceleration.

 

The loss of power happened initially while I was driving on the highway.

 

All the sudden it didn't want to accelerate or climb hills.

 

I have changed the timing belts and checked for a blocked Cat.  Still the same issues.

 

Fuel pump seems to be working. voltage to pump checks out normal.

 

Haven't done a pressure test yet.

 

New cap and rotor are coming today.

 

 Have you set the distributor timing with a timing light?

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Yeah, I though that a few time through ended up mixed up, yes every 180 on the crank one is at tdc.

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As to timing belts - you're sure you used the proper marks for alignment?

For installing/timing belts - use the marks, there's no need to reference the distributor or TDC. 

 

Free/easy checks:
no check engine lights?

check for spark from each spark plug wire sounds like it's missing a cylinder.

disconnect O2 sensor and see what happens?
 

Additional checks: 
MAF sensor - swap another one

CTS

I think an 88 GL may not have one but knock sensor. 

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Yeah, I though that a few time through ended up mixed up, yes every 180 on the crank one is at tdc.

 

Yeah I just wanted to clarify, not giving you crap.

 

We all get confused about stuff we know like the back of our hands.

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On 5/25/2018 at 1:19 PM, Gloyale said:

 

Close, but not correct.  Each revolution of the crank brings two of the cylinders through TDC on compression, Then as the crank goes round again, the other two will comeup through TDC on  compression.

 

IF you set it top TDC on #1, then Turn crank one rotation the next time it will point at cyl 2. Turn once more and it iwll be back on cyl 1

 

TDC for cyls 3 and 4 happens 180 degrees of crank opposite from TDC for the other 2.  but only one cylinder at a time is on it's compression stroke.

 

 

 

 Have you set the distributor timing with a timing light?

I did set the distributor with a timing light. Dialed it right in. Work done so far to resolve my acceleration issue.

new fuel pump / dialed in timing / dropped the Y pipe / re-wired IAC (wires were going to spoob)

no change yet. Still very bogged down going up hills. Just will not accelerate. generally have to own shift to make it.

Showing codes for ERG as well as Faulty Fuel Injector. Thinking maybe it could be an electrical issue with throttle body and TB fuel injector....?

I'd like to try a MAF, but I don't have one....if ANYONE can held me with that that would be heckin' rad. Would also like to try new EGR valve and PCV valve. 

Thoughts anyone?

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On 5/25/2018 at 1:31 PM, idosubaru said:

As to timing belts - you're sure you used the proper marks for alignment?

For installing/timing belts - use the marks, there's no need to reference the distributor or TDC. 

 

Free/easy checks:
no check engine lights?

check for spark from each spark plug wire sounds like it's missing a cylinder.

disconnect O2 sensor and see what happens?
 

Additional checks: 
MAF sensor - swap another one

CTS

I think an 88 GL may not have one but knock sensor. 

swapped a new CTS from the factory less than a yr ago.

I do have a check engine light - showing a neutral code, one for the EGR, and a code for malfunctioning fuel injector

disconnecting O2 sensor kills the car. disconnecting MAF kills the car as well.

Timing is now dialed in.

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On 5/23/2018 at 10:00 PM, DaveT said:

Easy check for exhaust blockage - loosen the 4 nuts on the Y pipe to head studs.  Get a gap at least 1/4" or so.  It will be loud, but if you have normal power, the exhaust is blocked.  If the performance does not change, it is something else.

 

The O2 sensor and the ECU won't care or know until the engine is up to normal temperature.  All you need is a short drive to check for normal power.

No change with Y pipe dropped. still acceleration issues, but only going up hill. Even the slightest hill. It rips going down hill and is okay on flat. haha that's such a sad sentence.....

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I do have a check engine light - showing a neutral code, one for the EGR, and a code for malfunctioning fuel injector

Have you resolved the code problems ?  A malfunctioning injector sounds like a good source of your problem.

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EGR code is the solenoid coil.  Every one of those I've seen is the coil is open.   How to fix for good - http://www.dynahoedave.co.nf/solenoid.html

I have never had any EGR open solenoid problem cause an effect on the drive-ability of the car.

Injector code sounds like the most likely place to fix the lack of power trouble.

 

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just throwing it out there, did you hook up the 2 diagnostic wires before you timed it?  and what degree did you time it to.

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15 hours ago, Dee2 said:

Have you resolved the code problems ?  A malfunctioning injector sounds like a good source of your problem.

have not resolved code issues. I'm going to try and clean the injector to see if it helps. I'll report back with news when I have it.

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