ClassySoob Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Hi all, I have an 85 gl with 5speed manual dual range. I may possibly have bad bearings in my front differential. Does any advice on what to do? Do I need to pull the transmission and tear it apart to replace the diff bearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) What lead to this conclusion? And yes it's essentially a full tear down/rebuild. GD Edited November 30, 2018 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, GeneralDisorder said: What lead to this conclusion? And yes it's essentially a full tear down/rebuild. GD I have something bumping real hard in my front when I drive. I've replaced axles, wheel bearings, ball joints, brakes, but nothing has changed. The inner drive splines have a bit of play, leading me to believe it's the spline bearings. But I'd there is something else it could be, I would be delighted to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Check out the ring gear teeth through the drain plug hole. But yeah sounds like it's due for a tear-down. I doubt it's the carrier bearings though. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 If it is about 2 times per wheel revolution, it could be the pinion shaft bearings are shot, and the pinion moves forward until it hits the differential carrier. On a 3AT, it does this on engine braking, but will seem normal with acceleration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, DaveT said: If it is about 2 times per wheel revolution, it could be the pinion shaft bearings are shot, and the pinion moves forward until it hits the differential carrier. On a 3AT, it does this on engine braking, but will seem normal with acceleration. It's hard to describe how I hear it. But it almost sounds like a hard rubbing. It starts around 15MPH and the sound increases the more my speed increases. When I hit my brakes the steering wheel shutters. When I turn hard left it gets worse, turning right lessens the noise to the point it almost disappears. No mechanics can tell me what exactly it is, so I'm using trial and error replacing parts in hope it will fix. But i don't know what else to look for besides trany related. Edited November 30, 2018 by ClassySoob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 if you were coasting in Neutral would it behave the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, ClassySoob said: It's hard to describe how I hear it. But it almost sounds like a hard rubbing. It starts around 15MPH and the sound increases the more my speed increases. When I hit my brakes the steering wheel shutters. When I turn hard left it gets worse, turning right lessens the noise to the point it almost disappears. No mechanics can tell me what exactly it is, so I'm using trial and error replacing parts in hope it will fix. But i don't know what else to look for besides trany related. Most of this points to axle / wheel bearing / brake problems. Very different than the pinion shaft bearings above. I have not had any other major transmission bearing failures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 ^^^^ yeah, I was gonna post that some of what was mentioned seemed like it could be a frozen brake caliper but......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Brakes, suspension Not trans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, DaveT said: Most of this points to axle / wheel bearing / brake problems. Very different than the pinion shaft bearings above. I have not had any other major transmission bearing failures. That's what I thought as well. But I've replace axles, wheel bearings, brake pads, (pads where pretty messed up, but that didn't fix the problem) calipers and rotors seemed in pretty good order. Ive also replaced the ball joints, which one was striped and the nut coming off, but that didn't fix the noise either. I removed my rear axles, nothing. The rear wheel bearings are tight. I'm certain its from the front. Not engine related as I can rev engine all day long with no noise from it. Only occurs when the car is moving. All gears and in neutral coasting. That's why I am suggesting bearings in the differential, not so much as the whole transmission. I'm udderly stumped on this. 12 hours ago, DaveT said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) swap tire pairs front to back ??? I know next to nothing about an 85, just hoping to mention something worth a second look. tires all the same? If the car is stone cold, is the problem the same or better? Edited November 30, 2018 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said: swap tire pairs front to back ??? I know next to nothing about an 85, just hoping to mention something worth a second look. tires all the same? If the car is stone cold, is the problem the same or better? The problem is the same whether cold or warm. I just had two new tires put on it the front. They are 175s while my rear are 185s. But the noise was there before the tire change, when all the tires we're 185s. I haven't tried rotation of the tires, but I guess it wouldn't hurt. Nothing ventured, nothing gained I guess. Edited November 30, 2018 by ClassySoob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Put it on a lift, drive it with the brakes loaded up, listen to components with a stethoscope. This isn't rocket science - you just need a better mechanic. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, ClassySoob said: The problem is the same whether cold or warm. I just had two new tires put on it the front. They are 175s while my rear are 185s. But the noise was there before the tire change, when all the tires we're 185s. I haven't tried rotation of the tires, but I guess it wouldn't hurt. Nothing ventured, nothing gained I guess. were the tires you replaced IDENTICAL to the rear tires? pretty sure even in '85 you need 4 identical tires. Try swapping ONE front tire to the rear , open diffs might let that work. just wondering if you have torque bind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said: Put it on a lift, drive it with the brakes loaded up, listen to components with a stethoscope. This isn't rocket science - you just need a better mechanic. GD I've had it on the lift twice, and ran it. But there was no noise. So it has to do with the weight of the vehicle. Was told it could possibly be my rear diff. But there is no change when engaging the 4wd. I even took out the rear axles so the diff was not moving and drove it, still no change. Edited November 30, 2018 by ClassySoob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said: were the tires you replaced IDENTICAL to the rear tires? pretty sure even in '85 you need 4 identical tires. Try swapping ONE front tire to the rear , open diffs might let that work. just wondering if you have torque bind. Before they we're all 185/70/r13s and still had the same noise. But the tire shop accidently put 175s on the front nothing changed. I do have a dent in the lip on one of my front rims, but I've had that for a while now, long before this problem came about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 were they the same brand and model? they can fit the same size rims and be the same profile - but still be different CIRCUMFERENCE. Even if one pair is bald and the othe rpair has 3/4 of their tread might be enough to cause an issue. any grabbing or binding/jerking during tight circles on dry pavement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, ClassySoob said: brake pads, (pads where pretty messed up, but that didn't fix the problem) pads aren't the concern - specifically check the pins, pad clips, and emergency brake mechanism. one of those is corrupting pad movement. they'll hang in a general "range" of movement sometimes making them hard to diagnose and having intermitten or condition/speed related symptoms, until the pad starts to wear at an angle and symptoms escalate. clean each pin, regrease with high quality grease (not generic permatex). pad clips can get bent, rusty, or corroded/built up and cause pad movement issues as well. emergency brake can stick at the hub. or it's suspension related - a ball joint/bushing is moving under load. Can you tell which corner it's coming from - you should have a vague idea where it's coming from if it's an audible noise. if not - have someone stand outside the vehicle and listen or change seat positions to listen from inside. Edited November 30, 2018 by idosubaru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 hours ago, idosubaru said: pads aren't the concern - specifically check the pins, pad clips, and emergency brake mechanism. one of those is corrupting pad movement. they'll hang in a general "range" of movement sometimes making them hard to diagnose and having intermitten or condition/speed related symptoms, until the pad starts to wear at an angle and symptoms escalate. clean each pin, regrease with high quality grease (not generic permatex). pad clips can get bent, rusty, or corroded/built up and cause pad movement issues as well. emergency brake can stick at the hub. or it's suspension related - a ball joint/bushing is moving under load. Can you tell which corner it's coming from - you should have a vague idea where it's coming from if it's an audible noise. if not - have someone stand outside the vehicle and listen or change seat positions to listen from inside. To be honest it's hard to pinpoint what side it is coming from when I'm driving. Sometimes it's seems like the right side, then the left, or even right in the middle. There is no binding when taking it in circles. But i don't really go fast enough to produce the sound. Doing cookies doesn't work that well in a fwd haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said: were they the same brand and model? they can fit the same size rims and be the same profile - but still be different CIRCUMFERENCE. Even if one pair is bald and the othe rpair has 3/4 of their tread might be enough to cause an issue. any grabbing or binding/jerking during tight circles on dry pavement? They are all Toyo Eclipse tires. Relatively the same diameter, just the 175s are not the as wide as the 185s. The fronts we're put on a couple months ago, haven't really drove it, so they are still pretty much brand new. The rears are about a year old, but still have about 90% of tread. None are warped, no knots or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 I noticed there are spanner nuts on the trany where the splines come out. Can I pull those and inspect the bearings from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassySoob Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 Here is a diagram of the diff. My thought is on the #4 bearings. diff 30-Nov-2018 12-44-26.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 If you turn those, you have to re set the ring and pinion gear mesh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 did you try to check for play in the front diff when you pulled the axles? drain the oil and look for metal pull the axles and see what the stubby shafts look like. i think i'm struggling to understand the symptoms. some people blow up small things to sound big and some are pretty even and some have a big issue but don't describe it well. part of your description makes me think brakes/suspension. another part makes me think diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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