86subaru Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 ok, i replaced the alt in my 88 turbo a/t full time 4wd wagon , replaced dash light dimmer dash lights were good , did some other work , no dash lights, also alt is real hot to the touch ,should i replace the alt again ? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I don't really know anything about this, but how's the wiring? Like the battery wires? Did ya hook something up wrong or forget to hook something up...that's probably just my mistakes that I tell myself "I'm sure other people have done this"....yeah I'm tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 yes everthing was hooked up ok, but the alt got real hot , so i shut it down , and ran out of time to work on it , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Excellent advice Shadow... Jim, If your dash lights are working , I wouldn't get too bent out of shape at this point. Your light will come on when your alt stops begins to fail. It may be ready to fail, but it hasn't happened yet. An alt that's running hot to the touch would be a concern. I've never noticed that before. If the belt is too tight, it could be causing friction and excess heat. Do what Shadow says, or take it to one of those car parts places with free testing. Alts are fairly easy to diagnose. The tests should be done "under load" and the parts stores have the proper equipment to do it. good luck, John Do you have a multimeter? They can be really helpful diagnosing stuff like this. You can put it on the amperage setting and attach it inline with the alternator output to check and see how much current the systems are pulling at idle. If you do this, a couple things: Make sure the battery is charged to 100% first. Have everything turned off, especially blower motors and defrosters Good idea to unplug the electric cooling fan temporarly so when it kicks on you dont smoke your meter Most meters are good for 20 amps intermittent (30 secs every 5 mins) on the high amp setting. You should only have a few amps draw with the engine running with no excess electrical load (ignition, ecu). Kick on the parking lamp system to see what happens then, it should only be a few more amps. The EA series alternators only put out about 11 amps max at idle rpm (according to FSM), so you shouldn't be running a major risk of blowing the fuse in the meter. You can diagnose in dividual circuits by using a set of jumper wires at the fuse panel. I have a set of test wires riged up with male spade connectors on one end and a alligator clip on the other. Stick two of those in the fuse socket, hook one to one side of the fuse, use another dual alligator jumper to connect fuse to meter, and connect the other side of the meter to the other jumper plugged into the fuse panel. You can diagnose each circuit individually very simply this way and then turn everything on on that branch to test for shorts, etc. It's very possible to get a bad alternator too, esp the rebuilts from the chain autoparts stores seem to be flaky. Take it back and get it tested on their machine if that is the case. The (insert foriegn cheap labor worker here) that soldered in the new diode bridge might have been drunk or sleepy that day Also if you could elaborate on the dash light thing, when you replaced the dimmer did they start working, and then stop again after you did the other work? What else did you do to the electrical system when you say ", did some other work ," that could be helpful to track down bugs. The other thing to be picky about is ground wires, pay close attention to the ones on the powerplant, clean them up and make sure they are all in place and tight, otherwise the high resistance can cause all sorts of funny things to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Do what Shadow says, or take it to one of those car parts places with free testing. Alts are fairly easy to diagnose. The tests should be done "under load" and the parts stores have the proper equipment to do it. good luck, John I dont have much faith in those testers any more. I had 3 different places, 3 different ppl, 2 different types of testers (one was a very epensive Snap On device on rollers); all said my alternator was fine. Replaced the alt and tadamn what do you know? my electrical problem was fixed. If you honestly suspect the alternator, just replace it. Dunno if it will fix your problem but dont rely on some dude at a parts store tell you the alt is okay I even tried a Subaru shop that came highly recomended (dude with the snap on system) charged me 25 $ to tell me the alternator was fine only to be replaced by me and fix my probelm 2 days later. Totaly agree on the above statments against remanufactured alternators. I"ve personaly bought ones that were junk RIGHt out of the box, two failed me within the same year, and ive seen others that ppl purchased that were VERY shady. Might want to flex that 'limited lifetime warrenty' all these reman vendors talk about Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 A couuple of times I have put alt's on cars and have had them get hot. One was a Buick. It got so hot it melted some of the glue on the laminated core. It was also humming very loud, like it was full-fielding (running wiiiiide open). I just let it run, and a couple minutes later, it quieted down and cooled off. That one was just a direct swap. I was told by the guy at NAPA to make sure the battery was fully charged, but when you are installing an alt in a 7-11 parking lot because your friend broke down, what do you do? We hooked jumper cables up to it for a full half hour in an attempt to charge the battery up. I'm assuming that it wasn't completely charged, and the alt was seenig a low voltage, and tried to correct it aka it was busy charging the battery. The second time I'd seen it was a similar situation, GM alt on 12v converted ford tractor. When I hooked it up and started it, the ammeter read 30 amps+. I know there is nothing on a point ignition tractor with no lights that is drawing that much power, unless there is a short, or the battery is nearly dead (which it was). Alt was HOT. After running for a while, amperage dropped off, alt cooled down, humming went away, everything kosher. Both the tractor and buick are both still running and charging trouble free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted July 2, 2004 Author Share Posted July 2, 2004 well the dash lights are not working , we replaced the dimmer switch and the lights worked , when we started up the car , no dash lights , on my 88 dl 4wd manual wagon the alt was pretty warm even after sitting 10 min , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I dont have much faith in those testers any more. I had 3 different places, 3 different ppl, 2 different types of testers (one was a very epensive Snap On device on rollers); all said my alternator was fine. Replaced the alt and tadamn what do you know? my electrical problem was fixed. Yes, the equipment isn't very useful unless the the tech knows how to perform the test properly. I've actually had pretty good luck at those places. Maybe it's because there are lots of stores that do the free testing in my town. It's a quick and dirty way to size up the charging system, but it's probably a good idea to do your own testing to verify their results. I would take a used OEM alt over a remanufactured (for Japanese models) any day. Rebuilt units for American cars seem to be much better for some reason. Jim, does that car have the digi dash? That might take some serious effort to track down. In the meantime, you might want to hook up one of those cheapo aftermarket analog clusters (alt, temp, oil pressure etc) to monitor your cars systems. good luck, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I've had pains with my ALT now for awhile too. I'm a design engineer here at Kenworth and I just gave up on reworking the darn OEM ALT's. I've had two go in the past month. I replaced it with a Delco-Remy 10SI ALT. I haven't had any problems. I think part of my problem was that I had too high of a load on the car, I had gone to far from the OEM specs. I keep fog lights on all the time as I do my head lights. I find people less likly to hit me. I also have a nice sterio and an inverter hooked up too. You can test these things out real easy youself. Instead of measuring the current output, just measure the output voltage before start at idle and at 1000RPM increase, I don't recommend ever measuring the output of an ALT (current) except with a clip on amp meter. They are pricy. I also found that all the grounds on the car need to be checked and typically replaced, see the FSM for all the ground connect points There are a lot. Go to the hardware store and buy ground straps, flat braided metal, crimp them to new ring terminals and connect them between the frame, starter, ATL and Battey. I found my car had a few ground loops causing weird stuff to happen with my dash lights. Unlike modern cars, Subaru used the vehicles body as a ground path, dumb, but common back then. It is very important to get the ground potential the same. It's not if but when will you have problems due to this. Hope you fix your problems. Mine seem to have gone away for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagwagon Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I fried my alt once because my battery was completely drained and when the car was rechargeing the battery the alt was working so hard it over heated / melted. Part of the problem was I use an Optima battery with lots of cold cranking amp. I was told if you completely drain them you need a charger to restore them. Shucks auto has life time warranty on rebuild alts. I'm on my 4th one. I don't think they are the best alts but you only need to buy it once. maybe your alt is working too hard also. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 yeah, replacing the dimmer worked for a moment, then quit again. i wonder if the dimmer burnt up. no red lights glowing. i suggest pulling the dashboard, use that an excuse to chang et he AC core, and comb over the wiring harness for melting the wagon has the inboard alternator, the smaller type, the other types are too big to let the belt tighten up could the voltage to the flat terminals on the alt cause it to run in full amperage? it does make a little noise, could be a bad bushing, ANOTHER bad alt but the dash dimmer burned out again, so its gonna be an arguement to is it the alternator burning it out, or something else. only a known good alt will prove otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 may i mention the dimmer is for the DIGITAL display, if that may have a difference. its only an issue with the headlights on i need to re-buff my multi-meter skills, took auto electric at ivy tech. john(alleyboy) has some FSM material for me to use, i will be allright with proper schematics, i like the fsm has the plugs and clips labelled for ease of troubleshooting! as long as i have good reference material we can get this thing figured out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 ok checked alt today with a meter , the alt is not working or kicking on ,the alt is good, i also checked the fuse it is good , is there something else to check ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Okay, which is it? Not working or good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 i took it off a running gl wagon, so it does WORK , just not kicking on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 the volt meter reading(dial )was no diffeent with the car on or off, at the battery posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 If the ALT is not kicking on, try reving the engine up and see if this works. The ALT needs a feild voltage to kick start it. Check to make sure there is IGN power at one of the terminals. I forget which. Anyhow, you may need to check this, if the ALT get no feild voltage then it won't start making power. On some models reving it up real high will self excite the ALT and you will then get power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 here is something strange , went to work this morning with my dl manual 4wd wagon , no dash lights , both my turbo wagon + dl have 8mm wires and acell coil ngk plugs , would the acell coil cause this ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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