mrfixiter Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Hi everyone My 1997 Legacy GT wagon with 165k miles (original engine and owner) has started to overheat when I drive uphill for more than a couple of minutes. The last major service was four years ago when I had the clutch, timing belt, water pump, and all the idlers changed. It had been 11 years since my last timing belt change in 2005 and also the clutch was starting to act up so I thought it was time to do some maintenance. I believe the car had about 142k miles back in 2016. Back to the present, I hooked up my OBD2 scanner to read the exact numbers and the temperature climbs to as high as 235 degrees F during these mild uphill drives. My workaround as been to downshift into 4th gear. As a result, the increased RPM's from the downshifting, lowers the temperature within a few seconds to a safer operating temperature, sometimes as much as 15 degrees F less. When I'm back on a more level road, the temp will hover around 210. Today I bought a coolant pressure system tester and pumped up the system to 13 lbs (that was the number stamped on the cap). Then I noticed something was dripping under the car. I crawled underneath the car and saw that the leak was coming from near the oil filter and apparently behind the timing cover. The fluid was a very clear color so I'm assuming it's coolant. The coolant and oil show no signs of cross contamination. By the way, the pressure gauge held the pressure pretty well. It took about 10 minutes for the pressure to lose about one pound. Next, I'd like to figure out where the leak is coming from. My idea is to remove the timing belt cover and see if the leak is coming from the vicinity of the water pump. First of all, does this approach make sense and if so, is it possible to leave the radiator and hoses in place and still remove the timing belt cover so I can pressurize the system again to see where the leak is? Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Classic Head Gasket Leak. When cold, it will hold pressure. When it's hot, the compression gasses are pushing the coolant out of the block and into the overflow bottle. Many time the coolant will not be pulled back into the coolant system. Check the Radiator level in the radiator when cold. Any oily black stuff in the overflow bottle confirms the HG leak. Drop a good 2.2 in it and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfixiter Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Hi Imdew The radiator is always full though the level in the overflow tank drops slowly over time. When I tested it today it had been parked for about a week. The ambient temperature here is around 65 F so I don't understand when you say, "When cold, it will hold pressure," because it did not hold pressure just sitting in the driveway. Also, there is no oily black stuff anywhere in the system that I can see. Should I confirm with one of those chemical gas tester liquids that will change colors if there are exhaust gases in the radiator? Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Agreed. EJs are good at maintaining a small HG leak for a long time without any real issues. Then things get hot at times and that’s your first sign of impending troubles in the HG department. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Are the radiator fans running when the engine gets hot? Here is a test that will check the fans but not the temp sensor. Remove the panel under the steering column (two screws). Connect the two Green connectors and turn the IGN Key to ON. You will hear solenoids and relays clicking, then both radiator fans will turn on low speed, then high speed, then off and the cycle will repeat until you turn the key off. Unplug the connectors. The oil filter and water pump are on opposite sides of the engine. If the water pump gasket leaks it will drip below the pump and if the shaft seal leaks the coolant is routed to the rear of the pump away from the timing belt. Sounds like it is time for head gaskets. The fan connectors have a tab you must pry up to unplug them. You can remove the fans and each side of the front timing cover, but the rear part of the cover behind the cam sprocket makes it hard to see the head gasket. Also, you must remove the pully from the crankshaft in order to remove the center front timing cover. When replaced it MUST be torqued to specs. In all the years we've had Subaru EJ22 I've never seen an external coolant leak from a head gasket, but I have seen different hoses and water pump shaft seal leaks and cylinder compression into the cooling system from a blown head gasket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfixiter Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) Hi Rampage The radiator fans do run fine when the engine warms up. In fact, nearly every time I park the car after any trip longer than 15 minutes, I will hear the fans come on at high speed when I turn the key back to "ON" so I can roll the windows up. 16 minutes ago, Rampage said: The oil filter and water pump are on opposite sides of the engine. If the water pump gasket leaks it will drip below the pump and if the shaft seal leaks the coolant is routed to the rear of the pump away from the timing belt. I think what you're saying is since the coolant is not leaking near the water pump, then it's more likely the head gasket is leaking than the pump or a hose. I have replaced the timing belt and pump before so I've had my fun learning the proper way to do that. I think just getting the timer cover off will give me a chance to see if the drips are coming straight down or are being funneled into that neighborhood because of other engine components. By the way, the engine is a 2.5l DOHC Thanks for your help. Edited April 13, 2020 by mrfixiter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) Yep, it's either the head gasket or coming from above like the water pipe that the upper radiator hose connects to. I have never worked on a 25 DOHC, so I don't know the timing covers. Our 95 and 97 are RHD Legacy Wagons with EJ22 4EAT AWD. Question, as the engine warms up does one or both fans run on low speed? I'm asking because our 97 RHD was programed to only run one fan on low speed. Edited April 13, 2020 by Rampage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 EJ25D, as stated classic HG failure. But, make sure there is no coolant pooling anywhere on the top of the engine. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 14 hours ago, mrfixiter said: I crawled underneath the car and saw that the leak was coming from near the oil filter and apparently behind the timing cover. does the DOHC have an oil cooler?? never had one so i have no idea.. but the oil coolers are a known source of coolant leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfixiter Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 hours ago, ocei77 said: EJ25D, as stated classic HG failure. But, make sure there is no coolant pooling anywhere on the top of the engine. O. I will check that out today. I know there is a coolant line that runs around the throttle body that could be the source of a leak too. 4 hours ago, heartless said: does the DOHC have an oil cooler?? never had one so i have no idea.. but the oil coolers are a known source of coolant leaks. I'm fairly certain there is no oil cooler but I will definitely check it out. Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 First I’ve heard of oil coolers being known for coolant leaks... Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 I've had a few Foresters that have had the coolant line coming over to a little oil cooler that sits between the block and oil filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfixiter Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 There is no oil cooler and there is no coolant pooling at the top of the engine. Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, lmdew said: I've had a few Foresters that have had the coolant line coming over to a little oil cooler that sits between the block and oil filter. That sounds more like maintenance oversight than an issue with the oil cooler leaking! I’ve not heard of any of the turbo engines that run the same system having issues. Technically it’s a heat transfer device - goes either way - hot climate = cooling effect for oil, cold climate = faster warm up of the oil to its optimum operating temp... Anyway, moving on! Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfixiter Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 Hi again, Since my last post, I have been able to remove the engine and replace the head gaskets. Now the engine is on the engine stand and I need to figure out where to put the silicone sealer on the front, camshaft caps. Below is a page from the service manual and some photos of what I am looking at. https://app.box.com/s/u36olscjp87m6q5bwvdqwmi90e9qyqvi In the diagram labeled, G2M0752, there is a drawing of what I think is one of the front caps that secure the cam shaft. My question is, what is the orientation of that drawing? Is this looking at the top of the cap as it is mounted to the head? Or is it the underside view? Where exactly is the silicone supposed to be applied? Also, is it acceptable to use Ultra Grey to seal it? Next is the question about the diagram in the service manual (see link in first paragraph) labeled, G2M0755. There are two arrows pointing to the two contact points where the valve cover meets the head. Am I supposed to put a dab of silicone on the arced part of the valve cover where it touches the head? Here is a photo of the remnants of the old silicone sitting on the head. You can see a small gray blob of it between the valve cover and the head. https://app.box.com/s/gzs9tmuxzm5kxfennl12bq54j16vws1j Thanks in advance for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.