pyromanic Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 So we we got the '85 GL A/T wagon home this morning. All it took was a good battery, and I can tell that the engine is as fresh as they said it was. Pumped up four flat tires, then was suprised to find that the A/T wasn't totally dead, so decided to drive it home the mile and half of gravel. Definatly not shifting proper. Thats ok, I really don't want an Auto anyhow. I bought this for the fresh engine (12000 miles on a compleat build), and thought I would part it out gradually to my '86 which already has a transplanted 5 sp D/R. But the car I brought home today is in much nicer shape than the '86, so a descision has been made. I will keep them both and intend to restore them to both to at least purpose driven functionality. Lift kit will go into the '86, eventually rebuild the EA 82, maybe find another 5 sp as this one getting tired. I want a rig for the dirt and hunting. And then also do a tranny swap on the '85 and turn it into my dayly driver. It will be obvious to all that I've got a lot to learn, but ya learn by asking right? Ok, heres my questions. My limited and muddy understanding is that the gear ratio is different between the EA 82s whith the 5 sp man D/R, and those with the A/T. So my weak logic circuits tell me that if I stick a 5 sp into a DL wagon that started life with a A/T, then my front transaxle will have a different gear ratio than my final rear diff. And that doesn't sound good. Or is that even right? Or does it matter? So I might assume that not only do I have to come up with new front axles for the 5 sp, but also a rear diff from a 5 sp rig, (but old rear axles will work, right?) But no, I realize that I'm far to ignorant to get away with assuming anything. Best to ask the dumb questions. I have a sneaky suspicion that my thinking is all wrong on this, and in fact I hope so, obviously it would be nice to avoid the extra expense and work of finding and installing a rear diff too. Sorry for the length of this, I hope I have made my misunderstandings clear. Thanks for all replys. Pyromanic The Clayman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 All right. Gear ratios between AT and MT are different. AT is 3.7 and MT is 3.9. No matter if D/R or not.The axles...they should work between AT and MT, unless it's turbo, I believe the outter splines are different on turbos. So when you do yuo swap, you'll need to get a 3.9 rear differential... I've done a swap from AT to 4spd D/r in an EA81, and I am planning a AT to 5spd D/R swap next week in my turbo GL-10. OH yeah, the rear drivelines are different between AT and MT. You'll need that too. A list of what I think you'll need: Tranny Flywheel,Clutch set Tranny crossmember 3.9 Rear Diff Rear Driveline Center Console Pedal assembly(Clutch Pedal) Clutch Cable Shift lever and Dual range selector ALL hardware (DiD I miss anything?) You might be lucky and find someone with all this stuff in the subaru marketplace. PM me if you have any questions. Welcome to the boards, fellow oregonian [HTi]Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Provided that neither car is a turbo, the AT front axles will work fine with the manual There should be a tag on the rear diff that tells you the ratio For the manual you want to use, it needs to be a 3.90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Whilst you comp template and absorb info. Along with gathering parts and courage. The AT tranny may only want the governor deburred and cleaned. A half hour operation. Please email me for a detailed description of this process. It should be in the USRM (Ultimate Subaru Repair Manual) but I could not locate it. This may grant you some time to do the above. For more swapping info, please see the USRM, it is on the page header and the pertinant section is linked to below. Driveline Section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Well I'm doing this comversion to my '89 RX here very soon, once I get the tranny and a few last parts. I decided to PM a guy on the board here (mudrat79 aka John) as in what parts I would need to do the conversion here's the PM I sent and his response... "Ok I seached on the board and came up short and since you're the man, I decided to ask you. I picked up a black '89 RX for 150 bucks a week ago. I have a guy a couple hours away basically giving me parts for it and he has a d/r ft4wd tranny that I'm getting also. The reason for the tranny is because my RX is a 4EAT and ack, I don't want it. What parts do I need to convert it from an auto to a manual? This is what I think I need but help me out in case I miss anything: tranny shift linkage crossmember pedal assembily clutch cable instument cluster driveshaft Thanks John! Russ Main thing you missed was the Flywheel, and Clutch assembly ..... Also to be cosmetic you will need to find Center console plastics.....But Not necessary to drive the thing..... When you pull the Auto shifter assembly , you will have a tunnel plate that unbolts, With this removed, all your Linkage will go right in, No messy cutting involved.... Later, John" Hope this helps a little bit. Once I get the conversion done with removal of old AT and installation of the new MT, I'll do a write-up in the USRM about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Its been done by a number of people here (myself included) I did a small writeup when I did mine.. I think. Should be here somewhere Its pretty straightforward. Easier if you have a complete donor car (which I didn't..lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Well done gentlemen. Yes, whilst I gather parts and ponder. The old '86 actually seems to be running better. So at least I have a driver. We are shy of wrecking yards around these parts, and the Brads in Bend seems to be high, as they are the new age type, everything is already tagged and bagged so to speak. Warehoused and shelved and inventoried, or brought in from elsewhere. I miss the old yards, the ones where we could hang out all day with our own tools and get what we needed. Oh well. So the biggest things I will require are the 5sp tranny itself, and the 3.9 diff. So I am seeing that these 3.9 diffs are availiable LSD or other-wise, with the LSD being the more rare, correct? How much advantage is there to the LSD? And how rare, and how much price difference when they can be found? Thanks guys, Pyromanic the Clayman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru_styles Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 on a side note....don't buy any parts in bend!!! everyone charges way too much.I learned the hard way:banghead: ... if you every take a trip to a bigger city IE: Portland, the u-pull type yards are the way to go. you can get the same stuff for 3x less (yes, price's are that bad in bend) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 or go visit Mudrat79 in Eugene, he'll have all the parts you need at a good cost, and I bet if you ask him, you can do the swap there at his shop and he'll even help for a little bit of $. Worth a shot I'd say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted January 8, 2005 Author Share Posted January 8, 2005 Yupper, everything in Bent Oregon is high. ('cept wages) "poverty with a view", some say. My older brother still lives in the Valley (Albany), and I might try and talk him into rounding up what I need next spring after I have recovered from Chrismas gifting expendetures and just buying two semi-servicable Subaru's. The high cost of living in Bend is why we have lived 30 miles south. But I am told that there is an old style wrecking yard south of us in Crescent that may be worth looking into also. So who's this feller in Eugene? Sounds like a good tip, but I'm ot towing the '85 over the hill, and it wont make it on it's own. But I'd be interested in knowing if he had the parts and pieces I'll be needing. I'll try to get a E-mail to him and see. About that govener, the lady I bought the 85 said she had had that fixed and it didn't last long. From what I have read here in the forums, I get the impression that once these things start eating goveners, they start eating goveners. Is that true, and why? Is there a permanent fix? Also, I drove it up and down our lane the other day, and it appears that I do not have rear wheel drive when I engage the 4x4 button. The red indicator on the dash lights up, but no power to the rear as far as I can tell. (this was on hard-pack snow, so I think it would have been apparent) No heater, turn signals, and most of the windows wont come down either, though they might have been frozen. I really haven't have time to screw with it much as yet. But cosmeticaly, it's in real nice shape. By the way, it's got Subaru chrome spokes that stick out of the wells further than the white spokes on the '86. Nice, but a little rusty. Looking forward to finding how much they clean up. Again, thanks guys, keep up the good work. Pyromanic the clayman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmountainmonk Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Howdy from the Valley! Congratulations, you're the recip. of my very 1st USMB post!!! I too am gathering parts to convert 2 Turbo wagons to DR 5 speeds. I picked up 4 clean and solid DR 5 spd MT's in Corvallis last Fall at B&R wrecking for $150 (after pestering them). They keep them stashed in the warehouse behind their parts counter. Albany's Pick-a-Part has a good collection of parts and rigs as well... Great thread! Sounds like I'll need axles, drivelines and rear diffs...yummy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 Howdy from the Valley! Congratulations, you're the recip. of my very 1st USMB post!!! I too am gathering parts to convert 2 Turbo wagons to DR 5 speeds. I picked up 4 clean and solid DR 5 spd MT's in Corvallis last Fall at B&R wrecking for $150 (after pestering them). They keep them stashed in the warehouse behind their parts counter. Albany's Pick-a-Part has a good collection of parts and rigs as well... Great thread! Sounds like I'll need axles, drivelines and rear diffs...yummy.... Hey madmountainmonk, you picked up four of them? You plan using all four, or might you consider letting one go? You mention "solid" when refering to these units, and I've been wondering, when a feller finds one at a yard how can you tell if there solid or not? Some one mentioned somewhere in here, (this forum) that if they shift through the gears fairly smoothly, that they are probably ok. Is that the only diagnosis availiable, or is there some other ways to determine their condition? Just thinking out loud. Been wondering. anyway, welcome, and get back at me about letting one of those units go. I have the '86 DL wagon, tranplanted 5 sp D/R N/A EA82, high miles but runs ok. Crunched door, kinda rough inside and out. Will lift this, make a hunting rig. Just picked up a '85 DL wagon, zero body damage, great interior, 3sp A/t which is shot in the rump roast, push button 4x4, single range, 12000 mile on complete rebuild from the "Subaru Guru" in Bend. That darn motor is tight. But I don't even want to bother with that A/T. So yup, looking for a 5speed. (and that other stuff to make it all work of course) Let me know. Thanks Pyromanic the Clayman La pine OR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowstormer Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 before you go buying a rear diff- check the one that is in the car. there is a tag on the back that will tell you the ratio. some of the auto cars were 3.9. if it is 3.9, you do not have to change it when you go to the 5spd d/r. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 before you go buying a rear diff- check the one that is in the car. there is a tag on the back that will tell you the ratio. some of the auto cars were 3.9. if it is 3.9, you do not have to change it when you go to the 5spd d/r. Nope. Mines a 3.7. Wont be needing it. Anybody wanna trade? PyroClayman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmountainmonk Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hey madmountainmonk, you picked up four of them? You plan using all four, or might you consider letting one go? You mention "solid" when refering to these units, and I've been wondering, when a feller finds one at a yard how can you tell if there solid or not? Some one mentioned somewhere in here, (this forum) that if they shift through the gears fairly smoothly, that they are probably ok. Is that the only diagnosis availiable, or is there some other ways to determine their condition? Just thinking out loud. Been wondering. Yes "solid" is a relative term of course. My work buddy who rebuilds trannies (mainly autos of course) for extra cash helped me go through the bunch of DR's they had (around 20 at the time I believe, they actually talked me in to 4...they wanted to get rid of them :-) we twisted input shafts and axle stubs looking for the least play, we visually inspected for cracks, leaks and signs of damage and shifted through the gears. I put one in my 92 wagon, I flushed it twice before filling it with MT oil. All's well since then...I've probabaly put 10K on it with no issues. I seem to recall us popping off a small access cover to look at some things but I cannot remember specifally what we were checking on. I'll ask him at work tonight. anyway, welcome, and get back at me about letting one of those units go. I just grabbed an 88 GL-10 turbo wagon from Beaverton yesterday...the body is so perfect I'll end up making it my daily driver. It's got a bad AT (its an AWD with a 3.7 rear diff). I'm planning to swap a DR into it plus the 85 wagon I bought last month. That leaves me an extra I can part with. Email me at uralpatrol@peak.org. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious-S Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 i, too live in bend, and know how spendy it can be to buy parts. i recently nailed a curb at speed, and found that smith rock auto. in terrebonne was the best bet. they're a little slow, but they do get the job done with a little prodding. crescent salvage is also a good place to go if you want to travel out there and play around. good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru_styles Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 wow..i move away from bend... then all of a sudden people are poping up on the board from there. where were you guys when i lived there:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky_pete Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 So did you ever do your swap? I'm planning the same thing for my Turbo wagon and was wondering if changing the crossmembers was truly necessary. How much difference is there in the mounts? Moreso, how hard is it to bolt up the pedal and clutch assemblies? Will there be cutting and drilling needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 So did you ever do your swap? I'm planning the same thing for my Turbo wagon and was wondering if changing the crossmembers was truly necessary. How much difference is there in the mounts? Moreso, how hard is it to bolt up the pedal and clutch assemblies? Will there be cutting and drilling needed? Nope, not yet. Found tranny, but will be a while before I can pick it up. Still have none of the other parts needed. Maybe by spring. Besides, I'll be doing the job outside, no cover, so will wait till the snow and ice subsides. But I will post results. Not much help. Sorry. Pyro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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