Tin Soldier Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I think my oil pump went out yesterday. IS this possible for the oil pump to just quit? I am driving along and all the sudden guage goes from like 50-60 to 0 and almost right away I could hear that no oil was moving so I quick found a place to get parked and shut it down. There is oil all around the passenger side head, but it doesn't seem to be leaking enuff to make a puddle at least there wasn't one today when I came back to the car. My questions are.... Should I attempt to just replace the oil pump? How long does this take and what involved? Should I assume the engine is damaged from no oil and just replace? How long does this take and whats involved? If I decide to swap the oil pump will one from a turbo ea82 fit an NA ea82? Could I get this done today? I need the car at 9am tomorrow. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 All over the the right head you say? I'd suspect a cam seal before the oil pump. The oil pump is in the center down low on your block; not off to the passangers side. Those cam seals can just go and cause a big old mess. I doubt your engine is shot; seems like you pulled over as quickly as possible. I'd get tow home and tear into it looking for the leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TROGDOR! Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Oops auto login as wrong person. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 OK now that I am logged in as the right user. What is involved in cam seals? Do I have to tear down the head? Last time I did that the car never ran again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Front cam seals are behind the timing belt covers on the cam tower. Does not involve tearing down the engine or even removing it. Just have to get the timing belts and covers off to gain access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 Front cam seals are behind the timing belt covers on the cam tower. Does not involve tearing down the engine or even removing it. Just have to get the timing belts and covers off to gain access. No problem they are off alread. What am I looking for? This would coz a complete loss in pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 No problem they are off alread. What am I looking for? This would coz a complete loss in pressure? Look for massive oil leakage there behind the cam sproket. Providing you have the back timing belt covers off also and not just the front ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 This would coz a complete loss in pressure? yes, if the seal completely blew, it could. I'm not sure how to describe where the seal is, but since you've already got the front of the motor apart, just poke around and try to see where it's coming from. The oil pump is the sprocket directly under the cam...try turning it my hand, if it's seized, that would cause you to loose oil pressure, but all the oil would stay in the block, and it would probably also break your timing belt. I think you're looking for a main seal on that passenger side head. And...unless you REALLY know what you're doing, start arranging for alternate transportation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 yes, if the seal completely blew, it could. I'm not sure how to describe where the seal is, but since you've already got the front of the motor apart, just poke around and try to see where it's coming from. The oil pump is the sprocket directly under the cam...try turning it my hand, if it's seized, that would cause you to loose oil pressure, but all the oil would stay in the block, and it would probably also break your timing belt. I think you're looking for a main seal on that passenger side head. And...unless you REALLY know what you're doing, start arranging for alternate transportation. I appreciate all this. I am better off to do a engine swap then? I am fairly handy with tools and motors, I am just concerned that I could spend a ton of time on a motor that might have other issues anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I appreciate all this. I am better off to do a engine swap then? I am fairly handy with tools and motors, I am just concerned that I could spend a ton of time on a motor that might have other issues anyhow. How long did you drive it w/o oil pressure? Was it just clacking or was it knocking? Did it start to over heat? Has it siezed? These engines are tougher than most give credit. No harm done in pulling off the timing belts, cam gear, and taking a look at the cam seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 OK, back to original problem... A leaking/blown camshaft seal should not cause a total loss of oil pressure; all it will do is leak oil that is splashing around in the cam carrier. (We ARE talking an EA82 here, right?) Check your oil level, and if it is reasonably OK, the cam seal is NOT your main problem. What do you mean by "I could hear that no oil was moving"??? How do you hear oil? Total loss of oil pressure means something significant has happened. Timing belt broke, oil pump seized (breaking/ruining t-belt), oil-pump rotor-to-shaft pin sheared, oil pump pressure relief valve jammed open, total failure of the "mickey mouse" seal, (maybe) massive failure of an engine bearing or oil gallery plug (if the EA82 has such). It could also be that the oil pressure sender/wire/gauge quit working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KStretch55 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I think Northwet is getting you on the right track. My first question was the same as his: How could you tell it wasn't pumping oil? Was it clattering badly or what? If not, my first thought would be oil pressure sending unit or mickey mouse gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 I think Northwet is getting you on the right track. My first question was the same as his: How could you tell it wasn't pumping oil? Was it clattering badly or what? If not, my first thought would be oil pressure sending unit or mickey mouse gasket. MorganM How long did you drive it w/o oil pressure? Was it just clacking or was it knocking? Did it start to over heat? Has it siezed? These engines are tougher than most give credit. No harm done in pulling off the timing belts, cam gear, and taking a look at the cam seal. I heard it start to clack and looked down at the guage and it said zero. I pulled it into a parking lot and the temp had risen to just above where it normally sits. Not overheated. Tblets are fine. The oil on the pass head has kinda been like that for a while, there is just more now, but still no leaking onto the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 As usuall NorthWet brings up some very relavint and valid points to check out. Get it home, get the radiator out, and start looking real close. I'm pretty sure youll get the belts and back covers off and say "OHHHH SNAPS... there's the problem!" You are already talking about motors swap'ns so whats a little investigating going to cost you? Just a few hours of your tmie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KStretch55 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Yep, it does sound like you did indeed have a lack of oil pressure, not just an indication problem. You might dodge a bullet, but if the temp had started to rise you may already have some bearing damage. If the pump was still pumping the pressure had to be going somewhere, but since you don't have a puddle or more standing oil than usual, and provided it's not in the coolant or exhaust system, I'd start by pulling the pump and looking for something obvious. Cracked or missing seal parts, etc. If nothing there, pull the pan and see if your pick up tube came loose. Suggestions?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 This may not be related, but may give you something to think about and look for: I was doing a test/diagnostic drive on an XT, got half way down the block and it was pinging badly under throttle. Got one mile down the road and the temp guage had started to rise. Started back, and then the oil pressure guage dropped to zero. tack, tack, tack, tack. Shut the engine down and coasted the mile home. REALLY nice slope on that road! Checked things over, oil level/condition ok, radiator was cold and rad hoses were hot. Let things cool down, started engine and had good oil pressure. Finally figured out that coolant was overheating due to blown HGs. I havent verified yet, but I believe that the pressure drop was from the overheated coolant, and the oil overheating/thinning because of that. The Point: Have you started the engine since it has had a chance to cool down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 you don't have to replace the motor, I can say that almost for sure. but you're going to need different transportation for a few days, while you figure this out and fix it. maybe put the t-belts back on there and try starting it once, but not the covers, and see if oil's coming out of anywhere. and if the oil pump is spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 This may not be related, but may give you something to think about and look for: I was doing a test/diagnostic drive on an XT, got half way down the block and it was pinging badly under throttle. Got one mile down the road and the temp guage had started to rise. Started back, and then the oil pressure guage dropped to zero. tack, tack, tack, tack. Shut the engine down and coasted the mile home. REALLY nice slope on that road! Checked things over, oil level/condition ok, radiator was cold and rad hoses were hot. Let things cool down, started engine and had good oil pressure. Finally figured out that coolant was overheating due to blown HGs. I havent verified yet, but I believe that the pressure drop was from the overheated coolant, and the oil overheating/thinning because of that. The Point: Have you started the engine since it has had a chance to cool down? Ok I went out and started it the pressure came right up. I had to put a gallon of antifreeze in it. I am going to attempt to drive it home after work. It's not making any noise tho. Seems to idle and rev fine. I did by a new radiator cap, because the old one was very loose feeling. The new one is nice and tight so maybe my panic was for nothing. Lets hope anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 This may not be related, but may give you something to think about and look for: I was doing a test/diagnostic drive on an XT, got half way down the block and it was pinging badly under throttle. Got one mile down the road and the temp guage had started to rise. Started back, and then the oil pressure guage dropped to zero. tack, tack, tack, tack. Shut the engine down and coasted the mile home. REALLY nice slope on that road! Checked things over, oil level/condition ok, radiator was cold and rad hoses were hot. Let things cool down, started engine and had good oil pressure. Finally figured out that coolant was overheating due to blown HGs. I havent verified yet, but I believe that the pressure drop was from the overheated coolant, and the oil overheating/thinning because of that. The Point: Have you started the engine since it has had a chance to cool down? I had the same issue in an XT6..... baught it, drove it for ten minutes, started clacking/overheating/no oil pressure.... shut it off, went home, got a dolly, came back, started it up, drove it on the dolly, no noise. Never knew/cared what it was.... parts car.Good info though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 if it was a suspected oil loss problem i would check the oil pump itself for irregular wear. the oil pump will *see* lack of oil problems first since it's doing the pumping. the rotor and shaft should tell you if oil supply was low enough to cause damage. this may not be your problem now but since we're talking about it, that's what i would look at first if replacing a blown out seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 So I drove home with no problems. I am not sure what the deal is. I had normal oil pressure and temp the whole trip. I will drive it tomorrow and se what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Not that this really has anything to do with this guys problem, but it reminds me of a day back in 91 when I blew off the bottom of a the oil pressure sennding unit. Just driving down the road minding my own business. (this was a mid 80's Soob) Talk about rapid loss of pressure! Bearings sounded like the hubs of hell all of a sudden. Pulled over instantly. New sender. No probs. funny what can happen. Pyro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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