portlandpiddler Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Short version: Is it plausible that I fried my new clutch on a 91 Loyale by not tightening the hill holder/clutch return cable sufficiently after installation? If so, why did it fry out only after I adjusted it "properly" according to Hayes, and not right away? OR, is something else wrong with this sucker that I'm not thinking of, and will it just fry out the next disk I put in there? Long version: Bought a 91 Loyale a couple weeks ago from a used car dealer, as-is, they said the clutch was "soft" and would need replacing soon. So at the same time we got a clutch kit (pressure plate, disk, throwout bearing and pilot bearing), tore in there, and 5 days and a flywheel resurfacing later had it all put back together.... I thought at the time I adjusted the clutch cable right, but I think I didn't tighten up the hill holder cable as much as I should have - there was a about an inch or so of play in the clutch pedal (that is, distance one could lift it upward), but there was definitely a bit of freeplay left when pressing it down before it actually engaged the clutch. I was able to drive it 400 miles without problem, went 65mph or so on the interstate, over a couple mountains, and i can't remember any evidence of it slipping. It may have smoked a little bit at very first, but after that it was fine. So I went out there this morning, and read through Hayes' section on adjusting the cable, to double check, and I tightened up the hill holder cable, and adjusted the clutch cable to the 20mm freeplay. Then drove up a 800' (over 1.5mi) hill and it did fine, but when I got to the top I noticed the smell of either brakes or clutch, thought I'd check it out when I got back. I forgot about it, drove a ways, and when it came to another big hill barely made it up in first. Lotsa smoke. Finally got home after letting it cool down and now need some kind of drink badly. So, my theory is that by leaving the hill holder cable too loose, when I let out on the clutch, it didn't bring the throwout bearing all the way off of the fingers of the pressure plate, and this very light pressure, over time, allowed the clutch to erode away. Although I tightened the hill holder cable this morning, it was too late, and the clutch just kept slipping until it burned up going up those tall hills. Is this plausible? Should I be okay keeping my new pressure plate and not resurface the flywheel again? Thanks for any thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 How long did you break in the clutch...isn't it supposed to be 350miles or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portlandpiddler Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 What do you mean with break in? Not go over a certain speed? If that was a requirement I missed somewhere on the instructions, I definitely will feel stupid, as after going around 45mph for 100 miles I drove for around 150 miles at 55mph and then another 100 at up to 65mph, and drove it normally (grew up driving a stick and consider myself gentle on them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I've never heard of breaking in a clutch either. Engines, definitely, but not clutches. A loose hillholder cable shouldn't cause any problem at all. Alot of them don't even have it hooked up at all. The hillholder spring does pull back on the clutch fork, but it's mostly the much stronger springs of the clutch itself that keep it engaged when the clutch pedal isn't pushed. If the hill holder cable was so tight that it was keeping the clutch from engaging all the way, then it could have burned the clutch out. But it would also have been keeping the brakes from disengaging because the other end is pulling on the hill holder cylinder. This is always what happens to my hillholder if it's adjusted wrong -- brakes lock up. Was the hillholder working before you tightened it? After you adjusted the clutch freeplay, does it adjust very close to the top, or well towards the bottom of the pedal stroke? Perhaps it was the clutch pedal keeping it from fully engaging? :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portlandpiddler Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 >>> If the hill holder cable was so tight that it was keeping the clutch from engaging all the way, then it could have burned the clutch out. But it would also have been keeping the brakes from disengaging because the other end is pulling on the hill holder cylinder. >>>Was the hillholder working before you tightened it? After you adjusted the clutch freeplay, does it adjust very close to the top, or well towards the bottom of the pedal stroke? I think overtightening the hillholder may explain, though I don't understand the mechanics of how it could have kept the pressure plate from engaging all the way, as I thought it only pulled on the throwout arm/bearing in the opposite direction. But I definitely did tighten the HH up. When I re-adjusted the clutch cable I tightened the hill holder cable almost all the way, thinking this would make sure that the release bearing would always stay off of the pressure plate when the clutch wasn't depressed. However, I didn't notice any change in the hillholder, didn't actually notice the HH either before or after I adjusted the HH/clutch cable assembly - but it may be that something else with the hill holder is broken. The clutch pedal adjusts pretty much to the top of the pedal stroke - which I think is normal, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Breaking in a clutch...I was told by some mechanics back in my dark pre-sube days...that you need to drive it lightly for 500 miles or so. In a stop and go enviroment. I never knew why...but I did have the new clutch slip a little when I did try to get on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wounded brat Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Ideally you want the clutch to engage or disengage about mid stroke, you might want to consider two thing your pressure plate may be the wrong one or two your flywheel if it is a two stage flywheel may not have been turned correctly. If when you get it apart and it looks glazed or really smooth you will probably need to have it re done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portlandpiddler Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 Heartfelt thanks for the advice, all. I guess I'll give it another go and write off the time and (hopefully) $50 for a new clutch to experience. Any more ideas on whether anything else might be wrong would be greatly welcome. Follow-up question: Just to replace the clutch, which is easier, taking out the transaxle or lifting the motor out? How strong a hoist do you need to lift it out of there (I think its an EA82, could be wrong)? Or do you even need a hoist? When I did it before, we went the transaxle route, but that was because I had a pit to work on it then, and now I only have a garage, and am not that excited about crawling around down there. Thanks, PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portlandpiddler Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 your flywheel if it is a two stage flywheel may not have been turned correctly. QUOTE] Is it readily apparent if the flywheel is a two stage one? On this one, there is only one main flat surface on the inside, and the around .75 inch rim with teeth around the edge - and the guy at NAPA who redid it seemed to know what he was doing, but who knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBrumby Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Just to replace the clutch, which is easier, taking out the transaxle or lifting the motor out? How strong a hoist do you need to lift it out of there (I think its an EA82, could be wrong)? Or do you even need a hoist? If you got a good back, you and a mate shold be able to lift out an ea82 as they are only a little heavier that the 90ish kg ea81 which my dad and I got out. A third person is also helpfull when doing the final lift over top radiator support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 all you need to get that bugger out of there is a two by four and some chain,good rope or straps.after all is loose,chain her up and one on either side can simply lift up and over the radiator support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wounded brat Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 A two stage flywheel needs to be turned down on both surfaces equally. if the disk sits inset on the flywheel its a two stage but two stages are probably only on ea81 . the more i think about your problem I wonder if you took the coating off the surface of the pressure plate. the manufacturers put a coating on the contact surface of the pressure plate to keep it from rusting and you are suppose to sand it off with a fine to medium grit sand paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portlandpiddler Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 A two stage flywheel needs to be turned down on both surfaces equally. if the disk sits inset on the flywheel its a two stage but two stages are probably only on ea81 . the more i think about your problem I wonder if you took the coating off the surface of the pressure plate. the manufacturers put a coating on the contact surface of the pressure plate to keep it from rusting and you are suppose to sand it off with a fine to medium grit sand paper Ok, then it is a two stage - but I watched him resurface it and he measured the step according to specs and ground both surfaces, so I think that's out. Good thought on the varnish- Though I didn't sand, the instructions said to use brake cleaner and wipe it off, which I did thoroughly (the incidental loss of brain cells from the acetone may explain why I didn't read up on HH cable adjustment ) .... spent the morning calling a bunch of Sub dealers' mechanics, and they agreed that if you overtighten the HH cable, it would fry the clutch; however, one also said the aftermarket pressure plates are often not up to specs, and I remember the PP fingers being level, rather than sticking out, which may provide another explanation. The mystery deepens. That said, I'll post again when I get in there (think I'll go the engine route) and see if there are any clues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.