delli50 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 i just bought a 96 legacy wagon and i'm starting to sort out and repair the problems. it's an automatic with a 2.2 engine that has about 270,000 kilometres (that's about 160,000 miles). subarus are all new to me. my last 10 or so vehicles have been vw's and audis, so have pity on me and help me with my subaru learning curve. my car stranded me tonight. it has tried to strand me other times, but i was able to get it going by letting it sit for a bit. it seems that if i drive it on a short trip and leave it parked for 15 minutes it will turn over fine but it won't fire and start. it starts up cold fine but won't restart after a short stop. i've changed the plugs and checked the air filter but i haven't got in any deeper. the engine has a miss and it is showing a code that # 2 cylinder is misfiring. i have to straighten that out. i suspect a bad valve. i have yet to do a compression and vacuum test to confirm my suspicions. i was going to do that tonight until i got stranded. i retrieved the car when the engine returned to ambient temperature. it started right up and i was able to drive home. also, i do think that the temperature sending unit might be bad. it reads halfway immediately when i start the engine from cold. would my starting problem be related to this? a bad signal could fool the computer into thinking the engine is hot a shut off the fuel supply. anyone ever had a problem like this? any help or thoughts would be appreciated. regards, mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subie Gal Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 when the car refuses to start... does the car crank? or try to crank? or do you get a "click" only? Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 when the car acts up, everything is normal for starting. when i turn the key, the starter cranks but the engine doesn't fire....it just keeps turning over. i ended up killing the battery trying to start it last night. went back to it about 1.5 hours later and with a boost it fired and started right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 You could have a leaky injector, flooding the cylinder so it won't start. Were any of the plugs sooty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 plugs are new. less than 20 kilometres on them. it could be a leaky injectorbut i don't think so. the engine wasn't firing at all when i tried to start it. it sounded like there was no spark or no fuel. thanks for the suggestion, mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Sounds much like a bad engine coolant temperature sensor if you ask me. Not sure why the gauge is off though unless the the sensor that measures the temperature for the gauge (which is next to the coolant tempt sensor) is also busted. plugs are new. less than 20 kilometres on them.it could be a leaky injectorbut i don't think so. the engine wasn't firing at all when i tried to start it. it sounded like there was no spark or no fuel. thanks for the suggestion, mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subie Gal Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 agreed cranks sensor or coolant temp sensor check engine light on? Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 check engine light is on. local garage that ran the codes said that the only code that came up was misfire in cylinder 2. no code came up for the coolent temperature sensor. the engine does have a miss and i will be looking into that. i believe that the starting problem is not related to the miss. is the temp sensor not the one that sends the signal to the guage? i'd also like to hear more about the function of the crank sensor and why this could cause a starting problem after i shut the car off after a short drive. thank you all for taking the time to comment and help me with this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 You need to find out if the plugs are getting spark when the trouble happens again. Carrying a spare plug with you will make it easy to put it in one of the wires when you need to check it. If it is a fuel problem then using some starter fluid will help prove that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 i'll give these things a try this weekend and report back on monday. thanks for all of the suggestions. btw, a new temp sensor is on order. interesting that it sells for $50 cdn here and $4.50 u.s. out of the u s of a. ya think that we are getting ripped off up here in canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 i'll give these things a try this weekend and report back on monday.thanks for all of the suggestions. btw, a new temp sensor is on order. interesting that it sells for $50 cdn here and $4.50 u.s. out of the u s of a. ya think that we are getting ripped off up here in canada? Agreed. Soobie parts here are ridiculously more expensive than they are in the states. PLus, there seems to be much fewer kept in junk-yards. Maybe they don't sell as many here, but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inday Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 OK, sounds familiar to me. It starts well when engine is cold and also when it is warm, but won't start after driving only 2-3 km with cold engine. Waiting for 10-15 minutes it will start again. No related error could be read from the ECU. It cranks well, has ignition on all sparks, there is gasoline-pressure, but all injectors probably don't inject. Have your injectors tested rigth away when that situation occurs. Hope you can reproduce it at a Subaru shop. I had the same problem and it took me almost 2 years to find out the cause. It was a faulty EFI-ECU. After replacing it the problem was fixed. Just be aware it is not that easy to find a secondhand ECU (don't buy a new one, it is far too expensive), it really has to match exactly your engine, so the number on the ECU has to be exactly the same as the one built in in your car. I learned that there were a few legacys 2. gen. (MY94-96) with that problem. Good luck. Inday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 well, i've been working on some of the bugs in this car that i just got. fixed the missfire with new plug wires but the car is still giving starting problems. it stranded my daughter last night. she said that it backfired and stalled. it wouldn't restart. the backfiring is something new. from my internet research, it seems that i should be looking at the crank ange sensor or the cam angle sensor. i hope to look at these tonight....pull them out, clean them up and see where that gets me. i'll keep you all posted. mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestboy Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 this is a classic. If it cranks over and no fire when it's lukewarm, it's the cam or crank sensor. Dont try to clean it, you have to replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 this is a classic. If it cranks over and no fire when it's lukewarm, it's the cam or crank sensor. Dont try to clean it, you have to replace it. This is a typical mode of a sensor failure. When the engine (sensor) is cold, the guts of the sensor make electrical contact. As the car warms up, the poor connection "opens" and the car dies. There arent that many sensors that will stop the car dead in its tracks. Next time it does it, check to see if you have spark. No spark its the camshaft sensor, if you have spark look at the crankshaft sensor. Also a bad collant temp sensor will stop the car cold too. If you have the haynes manual, and an analog gauge, you can test the snesors when the car stalls. i would run the car in the driveway untill it dies. The reason there arent many of these things in junk yards is that they run til they die, or they get totaled. i have a hard time finding them in junkyards too here in NY. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 well, thanks for all the comments. when the car refuses to start, there is no spark. i took the crank and cam sensors out last night and cleaned them. just like eastwestboy said, cleaning them did nothing. i'm off to the wrecking yard at luch to try and get some to hold me over till i can source new ones. i think that i'll do the temp sensor too, but it looks like a bear to get at compared to the other 2. also cleaned the pcv valve last night. the engine sure runs sweet for having so many kilometres on it (275,ooo or 165,000 miles). i'll let everyone know if and when i get this fixed. regards, mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 well, i've now determined that the starting problem is indeed one of the cam agle or crank angle sensors. ....how do i know you ask? well, my daughter is driving the car and i told her that the next time that it doesn't start pour some water or pack some snow over the 2 sensors on the engine. i showed her where these are and she informed me last night that the car did go into the no start mode for her on the weekend. she did the snow trick and it started right up...no hesitation. so i guess i'll bight the bullet and order the sensors. i better get at it soon...the snow's almost gone! the cheapest that i could find them in canada was $90.00 for one and $120.00 for the other one. in the us online i found them for $49 and $31. thanks for all of your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 One electrical test is to spray a refrigerent on the sender. In Canada you have handy refrigerent this time of year. Cheaper too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 ordered the 3 engine sensors - cam position, crank position and engine temp - online from liberty subaru in new jersey. great service, great price and very accomodating people. i would highly recommend them. changed out the parts last night and warm engine starting problems appear to be gone. thanks for everyone's help. till next time that i have a question or advice to offer...... mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2X2KOB Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Brilliant! Thank you for the followup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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