93legacyman Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I've always had 2.2L engines in my Subarus, but am considering a 99 OB w/ the 2.5 (5MT). I've read of problems with the 2.5s though. What exactly is the problem(s) with them, and how expensive is it when repair(s) is/are necessary? And at what mileage do these problems typically come? (This one has 47,000miles). Also, how much worse gas mileage will the 2.5L have vs. the 2.2 (both with MT)? Thanks!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 We REALLY need a sticky with engine information!!!!!!!!!!!! The 2.5's on the 96-98? Outbacks, Imprezas, and Legacy GT's carry the headgasket issues. The flaw lies within the stock headgaskets. They were poorly designed and this design causes them to fail anytime after 30-50k miles. If the headgaskets have been replaced, then the engines are good. Subaru put out a Bulletin on the 99-01 2.5 bearing cars and they gave them a coolant additive that supposedly helps alleviate the poorly designed stock headgaskets. Mileage per tank is probably about the same between the 2.2 and the 2.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 We REALLY need a sticky with engine information!!!!!!!!!!!! The 2.5's on the 96-98? Outbacks, Imprezas, and Legacy GT's carry the headgasket issues. The flaw lies within the stock headgaskets. They were poorly designed and this design causes them to fail anytime after 30-50k miles. If the headgaskets have been replaced, then the engines are good. Subaru put out a Bulletin on the 99-01 2.5 bearing cars and they gave them a coolant additive that supposedly helps alleviate the poorly designed stock headgaskets. Mileage per tank is probably about the same between the 2.2 and the 2.5. All 2.5 motors can have HG issues. It really is a hit or miss, I have several friends that have 97-99 2.5 and they have over 100k with no issues, but my father's 03 2.5 outback blew the HG at 30k. The 2.2 gets around 2-4 mpg more than a 2.5 motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 But between the 2.2 and 2.5 is there a noticable performace differance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 definately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93legacyman Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 So......if buying a 99 Outback w/ 47,000 miles and the engine has not been worked on..... is there some way to tell if there are already problems with the head gasket? Should it be checked out? And, what is a ballpark cost of repairing the headgasket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 $1,000 - $1,500 to have someone replace the headgaskets. add additional costs if including a new clutch at the same time. years with known issue are supposed to be 1996 - 2002 with 96-99 and 99-01 having different symptoms/failure modes. i avoid 2.5's but that's just me. there's *another* one for sale locally with a bad headgasket. i've yet to see any 2.2's for sale locally with bad headgaskets ever, but a little better than one 2.5 ever two months...and that's from the honest people, what about the ones that aren't telling you? the problem is very tricky to isolate when it first starts occuring, very few and random, intermittent problems (overheating). it's not a standard and easy to diagnose issue. there is not one test that absolutley confirms the headgaskets are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 But between the 2.2 and 2.5 is there a noticable performace differance? 2.5 or 2.5t? There is more power with the 2.5 165hp (or 168) vs. 130hp but I have driven both and there is not a significant difference. Now the 2.5t with 250hp there is a significant difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 But between the 2.2 and 2.5 is there a noticable performace differance? yeah. there really is. if you drive a legacy with the 2.2 and then the 2.5, there's a noticeable amount of extra spunk in the 2.5 but i think the 2.2 isn't as rough. i think i'll always prefer the 2.2, at least until i have no choice bu to get the 2.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I wanted a US Forester and I had no choice but a 2.5. The board steered me to a 99 which I am glad of to get the later 2.5. I still had leaky head gaskets but Subaru paid me back for them. Having driven the 2.2 in a Legacy I think you would notice the power difference, but for every day driving that is not in the mountains there is little difference. I think the 2.2 may have been the best engine Subaru ever made. Don't forget that on a car as old as 99 you are going to have to reseal everything and there will be a number of other items that need doing. If an Outback sport with 2.2 works for you it may be the best deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 my cousins wagon with the 2.5 has more power than our 2.2 impreza OBS. unless you'll be towing alot of very heavy loads the 2.5 power difference shouldn't matter. if power does matter, turbo is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 '00 OBW 2.5 105k mi here, bought it one year ago, no HG issues (yet! :-\ ) Anywho, better mileage with it (up to 30mpg w/NY 10% ethanol gasoline) vs. my '96 2.2L Legacy, about 24mpg (maybe somethin's giving it lower mileage). I definitely notice much more power from the 2.5L '00OBW than in the 2.2L '96 Legacy. It's probably common on many smaller engines, but the 2.2L makes good power only above maybe 3100rpm; otherwise it feels bogged down a little when stomping on it. The 2.5L feels a lot more torquey at the bottom end than the 2.2L (to me anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjou812 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 what do you all think of the link posted a few weeks ago about the small plane technician who feels he solved the 96-99 HG issue by drilling and tapping a fitting into a certain coolant passage to release trapped air? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 He solved the overheat problem for his plane. He hasn't done anything for a normal Subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 My 97 Outback had 170,000 on it before the HG went, not bad at all. I bought a JDM motor for it fro $920 delivered to my door and will be replacing the HG before I install it...then hopefully another 170K! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 As mentioned numerous times in this formum, buy with your eyes wide open when looking at a phase I 2.5 engine. I bought 2 - 96's, both with know bad headgaskets. Both had 150K+ on them and neither had suffered a major overheat, just the early symptoms. I had both done for about $1100-1200 with all the seals, timing belts and pumps done at that time. Purchase price of one was around $600 and the other $725. They are both running great now. Buy the engine overhaul kit from a subaru dealer that resells parts at a discount like firstsubaru.com for example. In my mind, if the HG hasn't been done on the car, then market value minus the HG job = your offer for the car. If they don't want to take the offer, move on. Another important thing to check is for torque bind. See the threads on how to check and solve TB. Lots of info out there. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 If you're buying any used motor, it's worth your time and sanity by spending the couple hundred bucks (<$300) to buy a reseal/rebuild kit and then your assured that the motor won't blow a seal or a gasket any time soon. Also, +1 for the post on the headgaskets about Phase I EJ25 motors. It's not that the phase I is a bad motor... sure, it has a different main bearing setup than a phase II, but the headgasket issue really doesn't have to do anything with that... and some of the phase II motors have had headgasket issues too. Also, about the main thrust bearing difference between the two versions, they say the phase II is better suited for higher power figures, but if you're just dropping in a motor to have a new reliable replacement, a phase I in stock has no real disadvantages. Also, you could just get a phase II EJ25 block for cheap (New, less than <$1300 and used maybe as low as $100) and swap on some EJ22 heads. 11.5:1 anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 maybe as low as $100) finding a 2.5 block in that price range is difficult and not common. 2.2's can be had on the cheap, but 2.5's command a much higher price tag unless you're lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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