DerFahrer Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 People, you're being a little ridiculous. First off, this 1.5R version is never going to come to the US. SOA doesn't need us to tell them that 104hp is not enough power for American roads. Second, this car is available in Europe. Those of you who live in Europe should understand why this car is available there. You all have much less room than we do, you all do less overall highway driving than we do, and you all have waaaay higher gas prices than we do. But you all have much better porn... Ahem, anyway ... The theory that a smaller engine having to work harder to move a car, and therefore using more fuel is flawed. As some have said, an engine technically runs at its most efficient at WOT anyway, and furthermore, the basic laws of physics state that a smaller engine moves less air, and therefore will need less fuel. I don't care what else you say, that is still the truth. I'd have a 1.5R for the hell of it. Two of the cars I have in my possession have less than 100hp, so I don't see how 104hp would be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 If things continue the way they are going you guys may be lucky to have a 1.5 in a few years. I have had a Ford Anglia Van in Kiwi that i had a 1300cc Escort engine in it that climbed every mountain I threw at it. When I was a kid 1200 cc VWs were very common here sharing the roads with 455 cube monsters. I bet that 1.5 Impreza is good transportation and gets pretty good mileage. With fuel climbing like it is we are bound to see smaller engines and cars here too. I bet the size of the average US engine is half what is was in 1975. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Hi! You guys are quite ignorant. How can you say it’s gutless if you have not driven it by now? In Europe it’s quite necessary for Subaru to have an engine with ~100Hp in its range. Like I said, don’t make the mistake and compare it to the WRX or STI. Around here, nearly every subie dealer is happy to get the new 1,5R, because it’s going to be the new top seller around here. The 2,0R with 160Hp was quite expensive when it comes to taxes. Do you guys know the Impreza 1,6L and the Impreza 1,6TS? This engine had 95Hp and was the top seller around here and nobody complained it’s gutless. If someone wants an Impreza with a lot of power, go get an STI. Lukas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Lukas, I don't think it's ignorance. More like being spoiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Lukas, I don't think it's ignorance. More like being spoiled. Spoiled? I'd hardly call my 130hp EJ22 spoiled. I've driven my dad's 97 Camry (similar displacement, similar horsepower) and that thing was a dog(ie, it was slower than my car!). Then, I drove my brother's 87 Nova - that thing can't get out of its own way. I think 120-130hp is a minimum needed in order to provide you with enough power to execute manuevers necessary for safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Wow, a lot of "interesting" comments going on in this thread. First of all, I don't see where anyone will be forced to buy or drive this car. Why gripe?? You see so many Geo Metros here on the road for a reason. There are a lot of people that love fuel economy (over most anything else). And for those that don't understand what makes a car more fuel efficient... WOT is part of the key as has been pointed out. This reduces pumping losses on the engine. This doesn't work for fuel economy on a turbocharged car because the ECU starts dumping fuel at WOT. Horsepower is almost directly related to the amount of gas used. So I will simply it by saying "104 hp worth of gas" and so on. This impreza will never use more than 104 hp worth of gas, even at WOT going up a hill. Whereas a 2.2 Legacy can make more than 104 hp at partial throttle, eating up more gas with less efficiency. This is also why my turbo Legacy will never get good gas mileage. Cruising around and starting up a big hill I don't even have to change gas pedal position and the turbo will spool... pumping more air, and using 160 hp worth of gas (plus some because its turbo). Nice for effortless driving, but hard on the tank. And some people completely forget about this little thing called horsepower/weight ratio. Your motorcycle only has 65 hp! It must be sooo slow! And it is so dangerous when I get into my ~100 hp GL and promptly do 80 mph on the freeway. Yeah, I can see your point, anything with less than 120 hp should be banned from public roads... Mid 80's tanks like the Oldsmobile Delta 88 had less than 100 hp yet everyone seemed to survive. Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 uh you must be driving that thing on the moon bro...no way an EA82 ever got better than 35 mpg, I dont care if it was SPFI and driven by ms. daisy that just isnt true. Never owned a EA82 but my XT6 fwder with the EA27 will get me above 35mpg if driven right. I know plenty of 2wd XT owners that see around 40mpg highway. Who's on the moon now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 And some people completely forget about this little thing called horsepower/weight ratio. Your motorcycle only has 65 hp! It must be sooo slow! And it is so dangerous when I get into my ~100 hp GL and promptly do 80 mph on the freeway. Yeah, I can see your point, anything with less than 120 hp should be banned from public roads... Mid 80's tanks like the Oldsmobile Delta 88 had less than 100 hp yet everyone seemed to survive. Weird. thats exactly what I wanted to say! there are so many cars on the road, that have less power and an auto tranny. They are more slow, but nobody complains. Lukas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 thats exactly what I wanted to say! there are so many cars on the road, that have less power and an auto tranny. They are more slow, but nobody complains. Lukas Having driven a friend's Sion Xb with 104hp that thing can really move (considering). Subaru's biggest problem is they need to go to Jenny Craig. They've been quite portly since the EA-81 compared to similar vehicles. That's something that takes development money to keep a structure strong without the added weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rverdoold Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I think its an excelent car for europe (and usa). In most european countries (germany, france, italy ect.) except holland the road tax goes by engine size so smaller engine lower tax. Now the EURO4 norm has been started since october there are several catagories like <1l, 1.5 2.0 and >2.6l. So its clever to have a small enigine in the range. Then there is a huge prize difference with europe and usa. Ill show you: The cheapest impreza 1.5 sedan costs 21.130 Euro (= 26.625 USD) this is the cheapes real subaru in holland (they sell the justy but thats just a suzuki ignis awd) Then the next impreza is the 2.0 at 26.565 euro (33.474 usd). And the cheapest impreza is a real empty car there is not even a radio or side airbags. There is also a 2.0 forrester and no turbo'ed legacy's or outbacks (Thats a real F pitty i think because they should beat some germans on the autobahn) And just for the info OBW 2.5 is 36.130 euro (45.527 USD) and Tribeca is 57.105 euro (71.957 USD) and that is without the satnav for both. The tribeca starts at 30.000 without tax in the US thats more than 50% cheaper. As well lots people overhere drive on propane or LPG to reduce the cost. The ej's are pritty simple for LPI (liquid petroleumgas injection) systems and run perfect with better performance. Biggest problem is that europe is waiting for a subaru diesel or turbo diesel this will improve sale prizes in alle european countries. Personaly i would never by the 1.5 ok the MPG is better but there is just no power at 3k rpm like in the 2.0 there is really nothing. I drove the 1.6 and it seems to work only above 5k rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 but there is just no power at 3k rpm like in the 2.0 there is really nothing. I drove the 1.6 and it seems to work only above 5k rpm. Thats just not true! Have you driven the 1.5? I bet not. The 1.5 runs a lot better than the 1.6, its a big difference. Even at lower revs the 1.6 can´t keep up, and at high revs the 1.5 will just not stop to idle. It revs up to 7k rpm with ease. Lukas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Does the 1.5 have the new variable cam system? That would explain the difference over the old 1.6. The only trouble is that to feel quick, the 1.5R would need to way around 1000kg. So how overweight is it? 2-300kg ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 I'd daily drive it. I daily drove my lifted EA82 wagon for a year, 91 hp going through 28" tires. it could keep up with traffic, and get ~28mpg doing it. and no, the engine is not more fuel effecient @ WOT. quite the opposite, actually. 5th gear + WOT + ~3k rpms = 80mph @ 22mpg OR 4th gear + ~40% deflection + ~4k rpms = 80mph @ 27mpg..... Lukas, you're exactly right. it's not a race car, and as long as you don't drive it as one, it's awesome. I bet it's perfect in an impreza (wagon for me...thanks) and EJ dual range and yes, EA82s are capable of impressive mileage. like I said, my lifted wagon could hit 27-28mpg, even once got 30 with a little tailwind. my buddy in his '86 carbed GL wagon (what...like 83hp?), has hit as high as 37.....frequently about 35. I can't imagine the kind of mileage possible with the aerodynamic body of the XT no need for more than about 30hp for safety, as long as you're paying attention, and making smart decisions. I've limped my EA82s running on only 2-3cyl. a number of times....it's not any more dangerous. a little hard on the motor, yes, but you just compensate with your driving style, and everything's ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applegump Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Id love to see this engine combined with a turbo or supercharger or BOTH (like VW with their TSI engines: 1.4 170 hp!!!) That wud be awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Does the 1.5 have the new variable cam system? Yes, like the 2.0R. @ Numbchux: You are understanding me! I bought it as a daily driver, because I need AWD in winter (we have lots of snow and ice from november untill march) and I want a reliable car. I don´t want a street legal rally car like the STI, I only want a daily driver. And the 1.5R will be perfect (knock on wood)... I bought the wagon with manual transmission and dual range. It will be here in december. And yes, its gonna be the best christmas of my life... Lukas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Yes, like the 2.0R. @ Numbchux: You are understanding me! I bought it as a daily driver, because I need AWD in winter (we have lots of snow and ice from november untill march) and I want a reliable car. I don´t want a street legal rally car like the STI, I only want a daily driver. And the 1.5R will be perfect (knock on wood)... I bought the wagon with manual transmission and dual range. It will be here in december. And yes, its gonna be the best christmas of my life... Lukas "Frugal and built to stay that way" Somewhere Subaru forgot this.:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 I think not only Subaru forgot this, even most subaru freaks forgot that. You only have to look at a few posts in this thread and you know what I mean. Lukas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjreilly Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 To be fair, it's not just Subaru or Subaru fans that forgot this, it's all of the U.S.A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Anyway peeps, keep in mind that Audi offers the A4 with a 100hp 1.6 engine here in Europe. A6's can be had with a 1.8. Both are painfully slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Both are painfully slow. I don´t know what car you are driving, but thats just not true!! They are no race cars, but they can easily keep up with traffic and they are comfortable and smooth. Keep in mind that not everyone wants a STI!!! Lukas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 To be fair, it's not just Subaru or Subaru fans that forgot this, it's all of the U.S.A. Honestly, my next car won't be a subaru since they only sell overpriced, poorly constructed, horribly backed cars so I guess I'm no longer a Subaru fan... then again, I'm not out of the norm of the typical 80s Subie fanatic. They're leaving Subaru in droves! Subaru had better hope their they can keep up with the ricer of the week crowd with their 15 year old platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjreilly Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Both are painfully slow. I had a 1980 Pinto when I was in highschool. It had a defect where the lobes of the cam would wear down. THAT was painfully slow. I can't imagine any modern automobile not being better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Honestly, my next car won't be a subaru since they only sell overpriced, poorly constructed, horribly backed cars so I guess I'm no longer a Subaru fan... then again, I'm not out of the norm of the typical 80s Subie fanatic. They're leaving Subaru in droves! Subaru had better hope their they can keep up with the ricer of the week crowd with their 15 year old platform. Hi! Can you explain this to me please? Why are Subie fanatics leaving Subaru in droves? Are the new Subies not as good as the old ones were? Thanks. Lukas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Why don't some of you young computer literate folks do a search and settle the question? you could see how many Subarus they sold in say, 184. Then you could se how many they sell now. I admit I am not likely to buy one of Subaru's current offerings next myself. I think they need to get into a hybrid soon becuse fuel is starting to go the way it is in other parts of the world. My next car will be a hybrid I'm sure. My current forester is seven years old. I kept my last car 17 years. So Subaru probably has only about 10 years left to retain my business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I will bet that will be a very realiable motor down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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