GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Long story, but the short end is I've got a carbed EA82 that's overheating. I've replaced EVERYTHING down to the head gaskets. The last major malfunction on this one was a catostophic failure of the water pump. It had NO bearings left in it at all, so there was clearly shrapnel involved. Now what are the chances that some of the debris was shot into the block and is now blocking some of the cooling passages? And..... what's the chances of me fishing stuff out with a magnet or chewing gum or? Tommorow I'm probably going to pull the pump and look, but as I didn't think of this possibility when I changed it, I didn't have a good look-see at the passages, and their sizes, etc. And I can't find a picture of an EA82 without it's water pump in place. Strange that everyone likes to take pics of engines all put together . GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 does it overheat all the time or only when driving it? Have you replaced the thermostat in it as well? Check the radiator and cap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Radiator was fine before the water pump, and I tried another good one I have to no effect. Cap and thermostat are brand new. As of doing the head gaskets (finished today), it only overheats when driving. If it sits idle it will start to cool down. I took it on the freeway, and it got about 1/4" from the red. Never got into the red, but much too hot just the same. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 so this is a rebuilt engine or a swapped engine? Since it seems to overheat while driving, you might want to check the radiator for a slight clog, since you mention it doesn't get to the red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Not rebuilt or swapped. Original to the car. It was my daily till the water pump went last month and I switched to the Brat - I had put 20,000 on it when the water pump blew. I just pulled it all apart and did everything - head gaskets and up (230k miles - I figured it was probably due anyway). Still overheating. Never had this problem till I changed the pump, but overheating can cause all sorts of gremlins.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 There are two types of waterpumps. One has a cast impeller and one has a pressed and formed one. The cast one is the hit. The only other issue may be in the clutch fan if it is still equipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Yeah - I put a Parut on it (OEM if I'm not mistaken) - cast impeller. The clutch fan is still equipped, and you can definately hear that loud sucker spinning up.... can an overheat damage those? I also have the radiator fan wired for permanent operation as the thermoswitch has always been dead on this one. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 good point by Qman, i'd suspect a water pump could be poorly made or something. i don't know anything about water pump impellers in cars, but cavitation seriously impeeds impellers in industrial pumps. i've had enough bad parts from parts stores, maybe the WP is bad? unlikey, but easy enough to replace at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Didn't overheat until you changed the pump? Perhaps the replacement pump is bad? I recall a member on XT6.net that had an XT6 that repeatedly overheated, and he later found out something about the replacement water pump wasn't flowing water very well... I'll see if I can find the thread. Anyways, since I have an engine without the water pump on it, I took a couple pictures for you: From what I can tell though, the water channel seems to stay about that same size, it just kinda bends off to the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Not a cheap pump - that's the last thing I suspect at this point. It's an OEM part - same make that SOA uses, just with Parut packaging. Pump isn't the issue - of that I'm certain. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Yeah - I put a Parut on it (OEM if I'm not mistaken) - cast impeller. The clutch fan is still equipped, and you can definately hear that loud sucker spinning up.... can an overheat damage those? I also have the radiator fan wired for permanent operation as the thermoswitch has always been dead on this one. GD You really shouldn't be able to hear it "spinning up". Check for looseness(bearings) and freeplay(easy to spin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Hhhhmm - pretty high up too. Starting to sound unlikely that it could have shot stuff up there and into that hole.... but then it is spinning pretty fast. The pump was totally detroyed - the shaft had 1/2" of play in it as the bearing was GONE. Pretty amazing, and there was really no warning. It just went - started overheating, and by the time I got pulled over it was toast. Had to call AAA. Thanks for the pic - that at least gives me some confidence in the size of that passage. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 You really shouldn't be able to hear it "spinning up". Check for looseness(bearings) and freeplay(easy to spin). Ok. It does spin freely with just a tiny amount of fluid resistance. If you spin it it stops after about 1/2 revolution. It's got maybe 1/32" of play to it - not much at all really - just enough that you can feel a slight movement if you grab it firmly. It makes a lot of noise when you rev the engine and keep it reved... the sound of lots of air being moved (this is with the hood up). I thought they were kind of supposed to sound like that..... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Just a stupid question but it would have the same effect for overheating. Did you make sure to burp the cooling system in it as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Pull the t-stat and the lower radiator hose, stick a garden hose in the t-stat hole, and let the water flow. Watch the water coming out for chunks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 RE: overheating and burping - Our SPFI had overheating issues, thought it was either radiator or t-stat, messed with both several times, and it would overheat/puke coolant for nearly a week after each "fix". Once the air bubble FINALLy went away, temp would be stable as a rock until original problem caused probs again. (Original problem was caused by coolant loss from that top-of-block to t-stat hose.) Moral: It can take an amazing amount of time to properly fill an EA82. Can you tell if the non-disty side of the block is significantly hotter than the disty-side? (I could get water to sizzle on the non-disty side.) From what I can tell from diagrams/etc, the non-disty side gets all of its coolant flow from the tiny transom port at the top of the case joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Solved! Third radiator was the charm. I have no idea why the other two radiators I had around (including the one working perfectly prior to the water pump eppisode) wouldn't do the trick.... I put in a 91 Loyale radiator I had around. I wasn't real sure about it since I smacked it around pretty hard when I was taking the engine out of the car (darn torque converter), but it looked like a replacement. It's got a strange lower hose as well - the lower output comes out straight like an EA81, so it's got a full S-curve hose on it. But it works perfect. The temp is 1/4 on the guage and solid as a rock even at 80 MPH. Maybe it was just air in the system and I had to get it hot and flowing a couple times to make it happen. I'm certain the HG's were blown after the water pump went. One cylinder was 20 psi lower than the other 4, and it would heat up to red hot just sitting at an idle. So new Fel-Pro's, OEM intake gaskets, and new OEM cam case o-rings. Thanks for the support everyone! GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 on the subject, you've mentioned in EJ conversion threads (was it you, Rick?) that "the EA81 radiators flow better than the EA82s"... but I recall that someone else declared that the EA82s' front bumpers block a lot of airflow due to the wedge-like front bumper. I've changed a few radiators in both series of cars and they're so close to the same dimensions, and the inlet/outlets are very similar, that it occurs to me that the design of the front of the EA82 is probably the cause of the difference perceived.. I'd been thinking about that and wanted to throw it out for discussion.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Well - I'll point out that ALL EA81 radiators were 2 row. And most EA82 radiators were single row. That probably accounts for most of the differences people notice. Haveing twice as many rows makes it a lot harder to clog an EA81 stock radiator. It also seems that most folks that manage to pick up a double row EA82 unit have no problems at all with cooling even on the turbo units. So probably if you compared an EA82 two row, and an EA81 two row the EA82 version would win just being that it's wider..... The problem on the EA82's is that two row's are either extremely rare, or were never done at all from the factory. I've yet to see one anyway... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 here we go. I'd been thinking of this thread here. I have replaced the radiators in both of my EA82T wagons (the 2nd of which is my EJ swap vehicle) and tracked down 2-row radiators for both cases. I never had any overheating problems, and I ran them without the clutch fans as well because I hate doing maintenance with those in the way and I hate removing and reinstalling them. I think that the combination of the blocky front bumper and the single row radiator might be the cause of the poor cooling people cite. Thankfully, I have a big fat tube bumper to run up front that will be much less restrictive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 As far as I can tell, the clutch fans were only on AC equipped models. The few non-AC EA82's I've worked on did not have them. Much like the second electric fan on the EA81's that only came with AC. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 yeah, both of my turbowagons were fully-equipped GL10s (OK, minus the air suspension). A/C didn't work in either though (needed charging). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 My AC works (I charged it with vintage R12 cans ), and I'm pretty sure that the clutch fan is there to cool the compressor when running the AC at a dead stop. Without the clutch fan, the compressor and compressor clutch would get dangerously hot, and the high side of the system would ice up.... very hot + very cold = all kinds of havoc. My GF's coupe had a completely seized AC compressor and a broken clutch fan (smooshed durring a front-end collision). When I hooked up the disconnected wire to the compressor clutch you could shut the engine down by pressing the AC button on the dash. Compressor wouldn't budge AT ALL - would stop the engine dead. I think I may see how the EA81 electric AC fan fits on the EA82 radiator, and wire it to come on with the AC compressor clutch. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I think I may see how the EA81 electric AC fan fits on the EA82 radiator, and wire it to come on with the AC compressor clutch. GD post on that once youve run with it for a while, im considering doing basically the same thing.. ive got a spare fan shroud and a small cyclone fan. im thinking about trying to mold the fan into the shroud somehow. the fan is about 3 inches in diameter smaller than the shroud, and im trying to see if i can find a way to mount it to the shroud and fill in the gap.. im thinking about using some aluminum tape and some expanding foam or something. Ive gotta talk to my brother about what he used to "solidify" some busted motor mounts on his honda... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I think I may see how the EA81 electric AC fan fits on the EA82 radiator, and wire it to come on with the AC compressor clutch. GD EA81 Electric A/C Fan fits great. My XT has one in place of the stock crank fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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