"Tick of Death"

[dave1rr]

I have a 1996 Impreza 2.2l, 127,000 miles, which has what I believe to be hydraulic lash adjuster (HLA) ticking. The ticking is frequent, but not constant. It will sometimes go away for a few seconds to a few minutes, then return.

 

About 10-15 k miles ago, I ran Seafoam in the oil (less than the recommened amount and only for 100-200 miles) and don't think it helped much. I generally don't like to put anything in the crankcase except oil.

 

I would like to know if there's anything I can use in the oil to free up the HLA's. Maybe the Seafoam routine again, or AutoRX which I've been reading about on NASIOC. Does anyone think this will actually fix the problem? Now I know the only real way to fix this is to remove the cam and replace the offending HLA, but I'm not quite ready to do this.

 

I only call this the "tick of death" because I've heard the term used a few times recently and it's beginning to worry me. Is there any truth to this, any long term detrimental affects to letting this problem continue? I want to keep the car another 100,000 milies.

[ericem]

You probably have sticky lifters, just dump some seafoam in the gas tank, though the pcv valve, and in the oil, and with the oil, dump it in after you run through a tank of gas, then dump the seafoam in the oil, drive around for a few minutes, then get a oil change. That odd to fix it.

 

edit: o wait ic u already put it in the oil, but u need to get a oil change, right after u put it in and u should only drive around for a few minutes i heard. Try the pcv valve, dont be scared, seems more scary to put it in the oil, and put more in the gas tank.

[unobtainium]

My '93 had this for a while and I fixed it for the most part with a pint of MMO in the crankcase. I'm suspicious of stuff like that as well, but this worked in a few miles. It still ticks when it's cold but it goes away just about the time the temperature needle passes the low mark on the way up.

 

BTW my manual says you only need to take the rocker shaft off to get at the HLAs - you don't need to remove the cam.

[subiefan]

MMO- Marvel Mystery Oil is supposedly good for the tick of death. Pour the suggested amount into your oil. The oldtimers swear by it. Can also be put in your gas. It's a mighty good fuel injector cleaner, and won't gunk up like the jet fuel based ones if you don't run the engine hot enough. Theoretically could be poured down the intake as well. It worked fine on the lawnmower, but boy did it smoke. The stuff comes in a red bottle. Any part store or Wal-Mart should have it.

 

Can't really say from experience if it will take care of your trouble, but I have heard various success stories. Pretty much what you do is pour this stuff in and run the crap out of it. EA82 tick of death is harmless. Don't know about ej22, but it probably is also harmless, albeit anoying. I feel your pain. Everyone thinks my car is on fire when I stop from a slow oil leak right over the exhaust.

[johnceggleston]

if you haven't done it yet, make sure you have enough oil in the engine. my 2.2L (160k miles) would tick like crazy when the oil got too low. it was burning it , leaking it , i fely like some one was stealing it???

 

new valve cover gaskets (125$), t-belt, water pump and front seals (675$), and finally rear main seal and oil seperator plate (part of a 500$ tranny swap) reduced the leaks. (over 18 months)

 

but low oil will cause ticking. keep it topped off and put some MMO in the oil.

[UP2DSNO]

If you'd rather not use additives, you could try using a full synthetic oil next oil change. It will take a few days of driving around before you notice a difference. It has resolved many lifter noises for us at the shop where I work.

Good luck

[rweddy]

My '93 had this for a while and I fixed it for the most part with a pint of MMO in the crankcase. I'm suspicious of stuff like that as well, but this worked in a few miles. It still ticks when it's cold but it goes away just about the time the temperature needle passes the low mark on the way up.

 

BTW my manual says you only need to take the rocker shaft off to get at the HLAs - you don't need to remove the cam.

How long did this fix it?

I have this noise also about once every few weeks, for 20 seconds or so.

Scares the crap out of me each time it does it.

I started running Mobil 1 but still getting the noise, more frequent when it is cold.

 

Anybody change out their HLAs? How how much$$ hard was it?

My 91 2.2 LS wagon has 153k on the clock.

[Manarius]

If you'd rather not use additives, you could try using a full synthetic oil next oil change. It will take a few days of driving around before you notice a difference. It has resolved many lifter noises for us at the shop where I work.

Good luck

I would recommend against synthetic. If you have ticking, you obviously have an older engine. If you use synthetic, it'll just leak out all over the place. Dino oil is better for older cars to keep it from leaking.

[rweddy]

I would recommend against synthetic. If you have ticking, you obviously have an older engine. If you synthetic, it'll just leak out all over the place. Dino oil is better for older cars to keep it from leaking.

Old wives tale, this was before all oils had detergents. Synthetic can cause some leaking but this is only in very old cars, 70s or older. I switch all my cars trucks over when I get them and I rarely buy cars/trucks with under 100k. Synthetic is great for both new and old cars, and I have run all my roos on the stuff & get about 2 more mpg.

[porcupine73]

If one (or more) of the HLA's lose their prime, would that cause ticking? I saw that mentioned in the haynes manual. If so do you have to manually reprime them or will they take care of that themselves when running? And why would they lose their prime in the first place?

[dave1rr]

A few more notes.

 

Oil level is full, uses about 1/2 - 1 qt between oil changes (4-5000 miles), I'll occasionally add an oz or so of oil as needed to keep it topped off between changes. I've been using M1 5W-30 since 10,000 miiles, switched to M1 10W-30 at the last oil change to see if it made any difference (it didn't seem to).

Also, I removed and resealed the oil pump, tightened rear cover plate screws and replaced the oil pump o-ring during a timing belt change 5,000 miles ago.

 

Any further opinions as to any harm it may be doing. I've been doing some more reading and the "Tick of Death" may not be!

[cookie]

If you can isolate the ticking lifter the best cure is replacement. Sometimes the additives will work and they sure are a lot easier. We used to replace the enitire set when they ticked and you never saw the engine for that again. This is expensive to do to an old engine.

[unobtainium]

<b>rweddy</b>, I did that in May and the first sign of ticking came in October, and that only when the car's cold.

 

As for the prime, the HLAs are fed from an oil gallery and as long as there's oil in the line, and the HLA is unblocked by grime or whatever, it will fill up pretty quickly. The reason you prime HLAs is because you don't want to bottom the piston in its bore, especially in an old one - then it can get stuck and it's really dead. IIRC an HLA from Subaru is about forty bucks, and EJ22s have sixteen of them. <b>cookie</b> is right. Replacing all sixteen will probably end your problem if you have $640 lying around.

[NOMAD327]

I haven't had any Subaru's with hydraulic lifters, but lots of Chryslers with Mitsubishi 3.0 engine that had very small hydraulic lifters located in OHC rocker arms. Those engines all developed a tick after a few years and eventually the tick did not go away even when hot. I used to use CD2 additive, one half quart can for immediate relief. Marvel Mystery oil half quart will work just as well for about half the price. One treatment lasts until you change the oil. Then you have to put it in again, or the tick will come back. Using oils with less parafin seemed to help initially, used to be Havoline, or Mobil. I liked Mobil, but it suddenly changed color when Exxon and Mobil merged, I haven't had any Chryslers in years, and don't use Mobil anymore, but suspect you are not getting the old formula.

[BigMattyD]

A few more notes.

 

Oil level is full, uses about 1/2 - 1 qt between oil changes (4-5000 miles), I'll occasionally add an oz or so of oil as needed to keep it topped off between changes. I've been using M1 5W-30 since 10,000 miiles, switched to M1 10W-30 at the last oil change to see if it made any difference (it didn't seem to).

Also, I removed and resealed the oil pump, tightened rear cover plate screws and replaced the oil pump o-ring during a timing belt change 5,000 miles ago.

 

Any further opinions as to any harm it may be doing. I've been doing some more reading and the "Tick of Death" may not be!

 

This sounds suspiciously similar to what happened to me last year. Read this thread, and see if it may apply to you...

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=34929&highlight=tick

 

Matt

[dave1rr]

This sounds suspiciously similar to what happened to me last year. Read this thread, and see if it may apply to you...

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=34929&highlight=tick

 

Matt

 

Thanks Matt, I did see your thread when I was searching for this problem.

 

The ticking began before my oil pump R & R though and I let the sealant cure before starting the engine. At this point I may just try MMO or some other snake oil again before looking at replacing an HLA. I have the FSM and after reviewing the procedure it doesn't seem like too big of a job.

 

And unless someone can tell me otherwise, it seems that the ticking isn't a big problem (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

[cookie]

If it is a lifter tick it will go on forever. It just has too much clearance it won't burn a valve like being too tight. Drives mechanics nuts though.

MMO has given a lot of folks good results and it sure is easy to try.

Gnuman removed his lifters and dissasembled and cleaned them. That works sometimes too.

I don't have that kind of time myself and I go for a new part if I remove one. Some Subaru parts are silly prices though. I bet you can get a cam and lifters for about $100 for a Chevy V8.

[rweddy]

Thanks Matt, I did see your thread when I was searching for this problem.

 

The ticking began before my oil pump R & R though and I let the sealant cure before starting the engine. At this point I may just try MMO or some other snake oil again before looking at replacing an HLA. I have the FSM and after reviewing the procedure it doesn't seem like too big of a job.

 

And unless someone can tell me otherwise, it seems that the ticking isn't a big problem (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

I am adding MMO in mine today, I will update if I get the noise back. Like I said before I get noise about once every 3-4 weeks for about 10-15 seconds.

 

As a side note, anyone see any issues with adding 1/2 quart of MMO with Mobil 1??

[cookie]

Check the can of MMO to see if thats about right. We used to put that much in seven quart cars but this is only about 4.2.

[rweddy]

Check the can of MMO to see if thats about right. We used to put that much in seven quart cars but this is only about 4.2.

The bottle says to put in an entire quart. So I put in a little under 1/2 quart.

[rweddy]

The bottle says to put in an entire quart. So I put in a little under 1/2 quart.

Well the tick did not go away. Still have it when it is cold, but only for a few seconds.

 

Is the noise mean trouble is comming?

[cookie]

It might just mean things are a bit old. If you have reduced the tick to only when cold perhaps the other half of the MMO on your next oil chance will cean it out furthur.

You might check on bobistheoilguy site becues those folks do a lot of cleaning on older engines and you might get a tip you can try.

I'm of the tear it out of there and put a new one in school so I'm not the best guy for this kind of thing. When my Mercedes had a tick at about 200,000 miles I rebuilt the engine and after teardown I could have gotten by with a valve job and new cam and lifters. I did have peace of mind though....

[johnceggleston]

Well the tick did not go away. Still have it when it is cold, but only for a few seconds.

 

Is the noise mean trouble is comming?

so do you have less or the same as before?? you can try lots of fixes, but if it doesn't go away, what are your choices? fix it (replace, rebuild) before it dies or drive it until it dies. me , i'd drive it and continue to try fixes, aditives, frequent oil changes, etc. what have you got to loose? i'd go for as many miles as i could before i spent major bucks. it may tick for another 100k miles. maybe try thicker, or thiner oil.

 

good luck

john

[rweddy]

It might just mean things are a bit old. If you have reduced the tick to only when cold perhaps the other half of the MMO on your next oil chance will cean it out furthur.

You might check on bobistheoilguy site becues those folks do a lot of cleaning on older engines and you might get a tip you can try.

I'm of the tear it out of there and put a new one in school so I'm not the best guy for this kind of thing. When my Mercedes had a tick at about 200,000 miles I rebuilt the engine and after teardown I could have gotten by with a valve job and new cam and lifters. I did have peace of mind though....

The MMO had no effect, good or bad same as it was before.

What about sea foam? Might this help?

[msmithmmx]

My name is Matt and I have a 160,000 on my 97 2.2 and yes I have piston slap. It is loud when it's cold but goes away when it's at temp. This is normal operating procedure, nothing to be worried about.