Things missing\needed: used 1995 2.2 into 1996 2.5 OBW

[jmickelct]

Found a used 1995 EJ22 that I want to swap into my 1996 OBW from a CT yard..

 

Things the 2.2 doesnt come with:

 

"starter, alternator, steering pump, turbo, supercharger, Ac compressor, and ECU. Coil packs, distributors and throttle bodies are not included."

 

"Almost all engines will include intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, fuel system, harness, and sensors. In most cases when installing a used engine you would use your existing intake manifold(s), exhaust manifold(s), sensors, and harness to eliminate complications." Almost?!!

 

How much will come off of and fit from my 2.5?

 

Starter

Alternator

Steering pump

AC Compressor

ECU

Coil Pack

Distributor (?)

Throttle body?

Sensors\Harness?

 

Once the 2.2 is in (and running!) will do the timing belt, water pump, seals, probably oil pump.... Can I use the (<3kmi) water pump, timing belt idlers from the 2.5?

 

Assuming the ECU will work and anticipate that the 95 2.2, with dual port exhaust will match my current exhaust.

 

Guestimates? as to seals, gaskets, incidentals that typically accompany such a swap?

 

(found a guy to do the engine for $500... he's saying same labor to do the tranny later.... $250... but will try to do at same time... will be getting a 1996 4EAT to try and avoid rear differential and TCU issues.

[Legacy777]

The biggest question I'd have is if you're going to swap the intake manifold. That may not match up with the 2.2 heads. If that's the case, you'll have to pull the wiring harness from your current 2.5 and swap it over so you can use the 2.2 intake manifold, but keep the 2.5 wiring harness (The reasoning for this is that the harness connectors will likely be different between the 2.2 & 2.5)

 

I don't know how the 2.5 ECU will handle the 2.2 either. There could be some ECU pins that are different.

 

I can see this project has a potential to be quite a pain in the rear depending on how things unfold, and how much documentation you have on each motors, etc.

[jmickelct]

Wow, good to hear (and somewhat disturbing...).

 

Went through an earlier round of inputs... most folks were saying that the 95 2.2 had the dual port exhaust and EGR (as does my 96 2.5) and that everything else "was plug and play". (pretty sure that Grossgary has done the same swap on a legacy) Obviously strongly inclined to trust your experience..

 

Assuming I wanted to get an EJ22 in, (again I have a 96 OBW EJ25\4EAT), any idea of what year (and transmission pairing, EJ22/4EAT (what I am looking for), EJ22/5MT) match would provide the least # of problems in terms of (the things currently on my radar):

 

exhaust

ECU

EGR

wiring\sensors

(assuming the 2.2 will fit the 96 4EAT without issue, which should (as close as I can tell) circumvent the TCU and rear differential ratio issue (will be getting a replacement for my same 12/95 production date 4EAT).

 

I've been talking to a Subaru "master tech", who has a shop in his garage, and want to try and scout out as many of these issues as I can (since he'd shooting for doing the job within a day and obviously more issue=more time=$..

 

Thanks Josh..

 

 

 

The biggest question I'd have is if you're going to swap the intake manifold. That may not match up with the 2.2 heads. If that's the case, you'll have to pull the wiring harness from your current 2.5 and swap it over so you can use the 2.2 intake manifold, but keep the 2.5 wiring harness (The reasoning for this is that the harness connectors will likely be different between the 2.2 & 2.5)

 

I don't know how the 2.5 ECU will handle the 2.2 either. There could be some ECU pins that are different.

 

I can see this project has a potential to be quite a pain in the rear depending on how things unfold, and how much documentation you have on each motors, etc.

[idosubaru]

The biggest question I'd have is if you're going to swap the intake manifold. That may not match up with the 2.2 heads. If that's the case, you'll have to pull the wiring harness from your current 2.5 and swap it over so you can use the 2.2 intake manifold, but keep the 2.5 wiring harness (The reasoning for this is that the harness connectors will likely be different between the 2.2 & 2.5)

 

I don't know how the 2.5 ECU will handle the 2.2 either. There could be some ECU pins that are different.

 

I can see this project has a potential to be quite a pain in the rear depending on how things unfold, and how much documentation you have on each motors, etc.

very good points to make but i'm fairly certain they are all incorrect for this swap. don't mess with the intake manifold, drop the engine in as a complete assembly and plug it in. power steering and a/c are you main issues, and they are quite minor. search the forum here, there are specific threads and success stories with this swap, you will see that Josh is correct that the intake manifolds do not swap...but it does not matter as the 2.2 intake manifold, plugs and wires plug right in with no issues, wiring, ECU or otherwise. you are right to be concerned and these are good points, i suggest doing a search and finding specific threads about these issues and specific threads detailing a swap that was done, you will find that what i have just said holds true.

 

i don't have the time to look over the details and think about this, but you wo'nt have any engine interchange issue -the only issue i see is with the transmission if you're planning on swapping auto's. EJ series auto trans are a pain to interchange, i'm not well versed in that except to say that's it's confusing.

[johnceggleston]

very good points to make but i'm fairly certain they are all incorrect for this swap. don't mess with the intake manifold, drop the engine in as a complete assembly and plug it in. power steering and a/c are you main issues, and they are quite minor. search the forum here, there are specific threads and success stories with this swap, you will see that Josh is correct that the intake manifolds do not swap...but it does not matter as the 2.2 intake manifold, plugs and wires plug right in with no issues, wiring, ECU or otherwise. you are right to be concerned and these are good points, i suggest doing a search and finding specific threads about these issues and specific threads detailing a swap that was done, you will find that what i have just said holds true.

 

i don't have the time to look over the details and think about this, but you wo'nt have any engine interchange issue -the only issue i see is with the transmission if you're planning on swapping auto's. EJ series auto trans are a pain to interchange, i'm not well versed in that except to say that's it's confusing.

 

i think he said the engine comes with out .....

[jmickelct]

OK, so it sounds if I hard target a 95' 2.2 that comes *with* original intake manifold, throttle, and EGR that the rest should be good.

 

Pretty comfortable just swapping my current tranny (specifying same production date 12/95 and TZ102Z2ABA, as is mine).

 

Will look further on the details of the AC, etc. and plan on stopping down to my local Sube dealer with a box of donuts and $20 bill tomorrow and seeing how many additional compatibility details I can come away with..

 

Appreciate all the help.

 

-John

[hankosolder2]

OK, so it sounds if I hard target a 95' 2.2 that comes *with* original intake manifold, throttle, and EGR that the rest should be good.

 

Pretty comfortable just swapping my current tranny (specifying same production date 12/95 and TZ102Z2ABA, as is mine).

 

Will look further on the details of the AC, etc. and plan on stopping down to my local Sube dealer with a box of donuts and $20 bill tomorrow and seeing how many additional compatibility details I can come away with..

 

Appreciate all the help.

 

-John

 

A little more info: you also need the 2.2 coil pack, plug wires, engine wiring harness, etc. The 2.5 AC compressor, Alternator, PS pump will swap right over. The stock 2.5 ecu will work just fine, and the '95 engine harness will plug right in to the connectors by the transmission. Works great.

 

Nathan

[jmickelct]

Moving ahead with swapping in a 95 EJ22 into my 1996 OBW (with dying EJ25).

 

Crosswalking the stuff the place I'm looking at strips off before they sell the engine) and so far:

 

A search at Partsamerica.com (thanks JE) has shown identical replacement parts for the two years\engines for:

 

Alternator

Coil Pack

Starter

Power steering pump

 

So am good there.

 

Looks like the 2.2 has a different AC Compressor than whats on my 2.5.

 

Can I just leave it off (until Spring)?

 

Outside of needing to replace the condensor, would this create any bad juju?

 

-John

[ericem]

Moving ahead with swapping in a 95 EJ22 into my 1996 OBW (with dying EJ25).

 

Crosswalking the stuff the place I'm looking at strips off before they sell the engine) and so far:

 

A search at Partsamerica.com (thanks JE) has shown identical replacement parts for the two years\engines for:

 

Alternator

Coil Pack

Starter

Power steering pump

 

So am good there.

 

Looks like the 2.2 has a different AC Compressor than whats on my 2.5.

 

Can I just leave it off (until Spring)?

 

Outside of needing to replace the condensor, would this create any bad juju?

 

-John

 

I wouldn't think it would matter, just in the winter, when defrost is on, you need ac air.

[Wayne Boncyk]

Make sure that the compressor that you want to use is stored well oiled (using the correct oil -- 1996 OEM is PAG for 134a refrigerant), and with the ports plugged in a very dry place. Definitely install a new receiver-drier. Then when you're ready to put it all back together, after the initial re-assembly make sure that you draw a good vacuum on the system and keep it under vacuum for a day or so. That'll encourage any residual water in the lines to evaporate (but you probably already know this). Then recharge with the correct amount of oil and refrigerant and you should be good to go.

[jmickelct]

Hi Nathan,

 

Will first of all be shooting for a complete 2.2 engine, with all of the "periferals"... but short of that..

 

Checked on Partsamerica.com, and rockauto.com and they list identical replacement part numbers on a 1995 2.2 and 1996 2.5 for:

 

Coil pack

 

Alternator

 

Starter

 

Power Steering Pump (some question @ rockauto)

 

(looks like spark plug wires are different... 2X price for 2.5!)

 

But list different A/C compressors.. (looks like the holes might line up differently).

 

95 2.2.

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=FAA&mfrpartnumber=67652&parttype=387&ptset=A

 

96 2.6

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=FAA&mfrpartnumber=67443&parttype=387&ptset=A

 

 

Would *really* love not having to yank the A/C, and sounds like you've been into this. How sure are you on the A/C?

 

 

 

A little more info: you also need the 2.2 coil pack, plug wires, engine wiring harness, etc. The 2.5 AC compressor, Alternator, PS pump will swap right over. The stock 2.5 ecu will work just fine, and the '95 engine harness will plug right in to the connectors by the transmission. Works great.

 

Nathan

[jmickelct]

Wow Wayne, sounds like you've been through it... (and actually, I know next to nothing about A/C!)

 

If I end up having to buy one, will comb through the junkyards first (prices run $20-200... though obviously have no idea of how they were stored)... aftermarkets $250-400.. but I guess more reliable..

 

"1996 OEM is PAG for 134a refrigerant".... can you translate?...

 

Any ideas as to swappability between A/C compressors in a 95 2.2 and 96 2.5?

 

Getting conflicting yeas\nays....

 

I guess if I can get the car up and running now with the 2.2 and used 4EAT I can rob enough liquor stores to be able to get A/C by Summer!

 

-John

[lmdew]

They will swap right over. Leave it all connected so you do not have to recharge the system. You may have to use the 2.5 bracket and tensioner assy but it will work on your new 2.2.

 

I've done 5 or so of these swaps and never had had a problem with the AC. Larry

[Skip]

Larry is the man when it comes to these swaps.

I am currently running a 95 EJ22 in my 97 OB.

 

As he says the bracket and tensioner swap over to the EJ22.

Bracket bolts will be a bit tight and strange to get at

but not insurmountable.

 

Same goes for your ps pump.

[Skip]

Thought I might add.

 

If this is an automatic make sure you swap the flex plate.

 

And while you have it off put the metal oil separator plate from the

EJ25 on the EJ22 (it will be of the plastic variety and prone to leaking.

 

Plenty of posts on this swap.

 

 

I'm going back to the EJ25 short block with the

EJ22 heads

[idosubaru]

don't mess with the A/C. do not discharge it. swing the a/c compressor out of the way with all the lines still connected(this is true of ANY subaru engine swap...even if you're installing the same motor), this isn't 2.2/2.5 swap specific. there is just enough slack in the a/c lines to allow you to hold the compressor out of the way and pull the engine out without ever discharging the system.

 

what you'll want is to retain the a/c bracket off the 2.5 motor and install it on your 2.2. it'll bolt right up and your a/c compressor will fit right where it once was, inside the same bracket/holder just on top of a different motor. don't break the a/c lines!!!!!

 

on the power steering i believe it's the same thing, keep all the power steering pump brackets and lines out of the 2.5 just in case. i forget what exactly you'll need, but best to have it all just in case.

[idosubaru]

don't touch the a/c. i posted in your other thread. a/c compressor swings out of the way (on ALL subaru engine removals and installs, this is standard practice) so you can pull the engine and install a new engine without ever breaking or discharging your a/c. your 2.5 a/c BRACKET will bolt right up to your 2.2. when you install the 2.2 the a/c compressor will sit in the same bracket it used to sit in...just on top of the 2.2 instead of the 2.5.

[Wayne Boncyk]

Wow Wayne, sounds like you've been through it... (and actually, I know next to nothing about A/C!)

 

If I end up having to buy one, will comb through the junkyards first (prices run $20-200... though obviously have no idea of how they were stored)... aftermarkets $250-400.. but I guess more reliable..

 

"1996 OEM is PAG for 134a refrigerant".... can you translate?...

 

Any ideas as to swappability between A/C compressors in a 95 2.2 and 96 2.5?

 

Getting conflicting yeas\nays....

 

I guess if I can get the car up and running now with the 2.2 and used 4EAT I can rob enough liquor stores to be able to get A/C by Summer!

 

-John

 

Hey, John! Yup -- been there, done that! By far the easiest thing is the advice that you're getting from the other guys -- keep it all together and move it as a sealed system. But if that isn't possible, then there are a couple of things I can translate for you. PAG is PolyAlkalene Glycol oil, the type of oil that is coming in all new 134a systems. Back in the mid '90s old freon-12 based a/c systems were replaced by 134a systems for environmental reasons (remember the ozone hole?). Anyway, the old oil used in R-12 systems isn't compatible with 134a refrigerant. Good news for you is that any systems sold in 1996 vehicles all had to be 134a. So PAG oil is what you would want to use. Also good news - 134a refrigerant is still available off the shelf in most places. You can no longer buy R-12 refrigerant without a special license and it costs about 10x as much as 134a.

 

The other advice I give relates to keeping the system as clean and dry as possible. PAG oil is a little like brake fluid -- itabsorbs water from the air and then its ability to lubricate is compromised. There's another oil also sold for 134a systems, commonly referred to as "ester" oil. That stuff is usually used in systems that were converted from R-12 to 134a, since it is compatible wih the older mineral oils used in R-12 systems. If you mix PAG with mineral oils you create a waxy sludge, which gums up the works. Problem with ester oils is that when they mix with water from the air they form a corrosive acid - nasty on the internals of an a/c system.

 

Since you need a lot of equipment to drain and recharge an a/c system in a way that minimizes introduction of moisture from the air, most people shouldn't try this at home! However, a/c systems are actually less complex than many of the systems in modern cars -- they're far easier than an auto tranny to rebuild, for example. So, if you're game -- have at it and have fun!!

[jmickelct]

OK...

 

Back on the happy train...

 

Though there are still a few questions as to coil pack compatibility (all the parts places indicate identical parts 95/2.2 & 96/2.5 and used ones are cheap and readily available within 20 miles), sounds like the rest should go.

 

Have monitored a few of the posts re: flex plates (re: growling\rattling...), should I consider replacing (or having a replacement on hand), should it "look bad" (will cracks\fatigue be apparent?).

 

Will dig deeper to bone up on the oil seperator thing and will be printing and compiling all of this for delivery to my mechanic. Will definately be replacing all seals (though may wait on the oil pan and valve covers/seals until the girl is in motion again.

 

Much appreciated all.

 

-John

[idosubaru]

if the oil pan gasket is needed, do it before it's installed. they require the engine to be unbolted and lifted...it's a real PITA to do in the car. it's not that bad but is time consuming and requires lifting/supporting the engine for clearance.

 

i've always reused flexplates, assuming the right one is used and they are installed properly and the bolts are properly torqued there shouldn't be a problem.

[jmickelct]

Roger that.

 

Will try to schedule some alone time with the engine before I deliver to mechanic and before its swapped.

 

Will start specing out requisite swap parts now and will include pan and internal gasket.