hatchsub Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Well im back with more issues. I did the ATF flush on it and it was shifting like butter after 800 or so miles. So i drained the now dark..burned ATF out and put in some redline 75w90 gear oil. Now im back to second gear being crunchy when cold. What gives? Could it be the higher viscosity of the gear oil is keeping that worn syncro from working properly and it worked fine with the ATF cause it was thinner? Im thinking maybe i should drain out about half a quart and put in some resline. What do you guys think. When its warmed up it seems to shift fine. Its only when its cold that it has this problem..and only when im going from first to second..never if im just pulling it into second to turn onto a street or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Savage Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 First off, why did u put ATF in a standard tranny. Iam pretty sure they make flushes for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted February 4, 2007 Author Share Posted February 4, 2007 its a common thing that has been done on this board many times with success. I was advised to do it and leave it in until the tranny felt good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 It's perfectly fine, ATF has very close shear properties to gear oil. I would switch to a synthetic gear lube. The dino stuff is just too thick, and there is a big step from 1st to 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted February 4, 2007 Author Share Posted February 4, 2007 it is synthetic..redline 75w90. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casioqv Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 it is synthetic..redline 75w90. You should be using redline 75W90 NS, or MT-90. The regular 75w90 has friction modifiers for limited slip differentials, that cause your syncromesh to engage slower, and grind. You could also try the redline MTL, which is more similar to the ATF in viscosity, but might be bad in temperatures over 90F (32C). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 hmm, interesting. i am currently using Redline 75w90. would that be causing my tranny to get stuck in gear? i mean i can get it out of gear but i really have to bang on it. and it doesn't do it all the time. the 75w90 did seem pretty thick to me. i think i'll swap fluid this spring and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Most modern manual trannies now call for ATF anyway. And the trend is growing. It's not because of large differences in the transmissions themselves, but rather large improvements in the qualities of ATF. In other words, it's basically very safe to just USE ATF. Also - think about it this way. When was the last time your heard of a manual tranny destroying it's gearset? You didn't because long, long before that happens the syncro's or the shift dogs are destroyed. So anything that prolongs the life of the syncro's and and prevents grinding or crunching (IE - shift dog destruction) is prefereble EVEN at a slight disadvantage to gearset wear. And yet one more thing to think about - the gears in Automatic transmissions (yes, they have gears too) run in what? Yep - they run in ATF. And with modern ATF and proper flushing intervals it's not uncommon for AT's to go 200 or 300 thousand - and again most failures are not gear wear related but are due to improper shifting from the hydraulic control systems being worn or clogged. Subaru ran ATF in the bonnevile Justy for lower gear resistance. Admittedly this was a race car, but it *was* runing at 125 MPH on a completely bone stock 5 speed in the hot desert.... So you *could* just run a high quality synthetic ATF in it and be just fine. If you like the way it shifts with ATF I say just run that. Check it for color and smell regularly, and you may end up changing the ATF every few oil changes as the manual tranny has no provision for cooling, and if you do long runs it will overheat the ATF and break it down. Simply changing it like you change your oil solves that problem though GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 hmm, interesting. i am currently using Redline 75w90. would that be causing my tranny to get stuck in gear? i mean i can get it out of gear but i really have to bang on it. and it doesn't do it all the time. the 75w90 did seem pretty thick to me. i think i'll swap fluid this spring and see what happens. That's common on the 4 speeds - the one from my Brat would do that in 4th gear if I came to a complete stop. Just make sure you put in neutral BEFORE stopping and it's fine. It's due to wear on the shift dogs causeing them to bind. When they are spinning it's much easier to disengage them. Mine did that for the 50,000 that I ran it and never got any worse. I'm in the habit of stopping and parking always in neutral anyway so I never even noticed it. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 Is there any low viscosity manual tranny fluid..say similar in viscosity to auto fluid? Also what do you think my chances are of getting my money back on this redline crap. My tranny shifts like crap again and this stuff is expensive. It shifted great with 1.89 Napa auto tranny fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Dain Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I had that problem in my Brat. I put in that Lucus gear oil additive, with regular 85-90 gear oil. after several miles it smoothed right out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 As sugested I think you may just be using the wrong Redline. The "NS" stuff is what I use as it's forumated for manual transmissions, and adresses exactly the symtoms you seem to be having: http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?productID=38&subCategoryID=15&categoryID=6 The regular 75w90 is "gear oil" which can be used in a transmission, but contains the visco modifier for the limited slip diffs - not really a good thing for a tranny.... from their web site: "75W90 Gear Oil can be used in many transmissions and transaxles; however, other Red Line lubricants have better frictional properties for rapid synchronization." GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 over on nasioc.com there is a mixture called "uncle scotty's coctail" that people are using in the wrx trannys with great results. I think it is a mix of 4 products. might be worth some consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 over on nasioc.com there is a mixture called "uncle scotty's coctail" that people are using in the wrx trannys with great results. I think it is a mix of 4 products. might be worth some consideration. for anyone else interested, I found a thread talking about this coctail, http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949794 1qt Redline lightweight shockproof1qt Pennzoil Synchromesh 2qt Castrol HypoyC 80w-90 I've had ATF in my tranny for ~1000 miles, and am about ready to change it out to normal gear fluid. Still not sure if I want to go this route, just redline 75w90NS, or plain old GL5. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Ok everyone. I drained out the redline and put in just standard old Valvoline 75w90 non-synthetic. It still is hard to get into 2nd when cold but when warm it shifts a lot better. I think this is as good as it gets at least until its warmer than 29 out :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opus Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Not to hijack the thread, but this is a good read. I will do my '86 GL wagon today. As it stands now, being its cold out, you can start the car...with the clutch in, let the clutch out and it will about die, due to the thickness of the oil. This sounds like a good help. Car has 240K on it. Tranny syncros are a little bad going from 4th to 3rd. Curious to see how ugly the fluid will be once I get it cleaned out. I'm going to go the straight ATF route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 yea id recomend the straight ATF for 1000 miles or so...or however long it takes till the tranny feels loosened up. Then drain it and put in some 75w90 gear oil and it should feel a lot better. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger87ea82t Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I second what GD says about ATF in late model trannys. I had a 1985 chevy S-10 5spd 4x4 and it used ATF in the tranny and transfer case. Same for 1985 Ford F350 4x4 with 5spd.......Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opus Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Whoa, that was a quick and easy job. Now to wait and see......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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