Bad distributor! Bad! Bad! (2nd EA81 dizzy to go in 6 months)

[snoutmeat]

To make a long story short, my 1984 BRAT's engine died suddenly on me on the freeway on Saturday night. Fortunately, I was able to coast off the exit ramp and into a grocery store parking lot. Some troubleshooting told me it was probably the electronic ignition module in the distributor. I had a spare engine in the garage, so got a ride home, swapped in the distributor, and the BRAT fired right up.

 

This is the second time in six months I've replaced one of these units -- last fall, the one on my dad's 84 wagon died. Are these the Achilles' Heel of the EA81 engine? Or is it just a coincidence? I notice that the distributor is always one of the first things to go at the Pull-a-Part. A few years ago, when I owned the wagon that my dad is now driving, the wagon died on the freeway as well. After some chatting on the list, many suggested that it might be the dizzy, and I picked one up from edrach (that he'd grabbed from Pull-a-Part). That time, the problem turned out to be the fuel pump, so I still have another spare...of course, I don't know if that one's actually any good. The EA81 Soobies are all getting pretty old, and sudden engine stalling on the freeway might be the last straw. The car dies, the owner gets a ride home, the car gets towed, and the impound fees plus repair fees equal the value of the car, so the owner gives it up, it goes to auction, and ends up in Pull-a-Part.

 

So...

 

1) Can these be tested outside of the car? If it were an old distributor with points, one could spin the distributor shaft by hand and use a voltmeter to check for continuity across the two wires. I'll have to go check the one that came from Pull-a-Part to see. I figured that the "How to Keep Your Subaru Alive" book would help, but it says to take it to the dealer for testing.

 

2) Anyone else having problems with these, or is it just me?

 

3) Replacing the dead component inside the distributor looks like a royal pain in the @$$, requiring disassembly of the distributor with tools that aren't typically in my toolbox. It's not something I'd want to try at the side of the road. Anyone tried it?

 

It appears that the new part costs $82 to $180 for the Hitachi distributor. That seems a little crazy. I wonder if there are cheaper options for the new part.

 

When I head out on long road trips, I bring my tools, plus:

--alternator

--fuel pump

--fan belt

 

Now I'm thinking that I need to add "distributor" to that list. Thank goodness it died when I was 2 miles from my house, and not when I was 750 miles away last fall.

 

--Shane

[GeneralDisorder]

Are you running aftermarket coils? Those will kill the ignitor.

 

Best. Solution. Ever: SPFI.

 

GD

[brat86]

They can be checked out of the car. First check for side to side wobble in shaft. The pick-up coil can be checked with an ohm meter across the 2 wires on the disty. I don't have exact number, but should be fairly low. Less than 1Kohm. Definatly not zero or open. Also wiggle the wires when checking and look for changes on the meter. A common failure is where the wires enter the body of the coil. Vibration strain there. I have fixed shorted wires here with a bit of trimming on the plastic and a bit of rtv.

 

There are aftermarket ignitions of various types that will work. There may be another coil that can made to work(chevy hei or something). The guys at Ram Aircraft Performance use double stacked coils for redundancy required by the FAA, maybe contact them and see if you can get a supplier for the coil.

[naru]

1-Yes they can be tested off the car.Simpliest module check would be w/the "diode check" function of a cheap multimeter.Next hardest would be to power up the module w/12V and look for intermittent continuity to ground on the coil wire as the dizzy is spun.You won`t be able to measure pick-up coil resistance on a Hitachi as the coil is integral.

 

2-You are not the only one.However,EVERY case I`ve seen of module failure was the result of extra high secondary voltages caused by bad secondary components.(Open or loose plug wires,open rotor etc.) In most cases,the car was running OK even w/bad wires etc.

-IIRC,an alternator regulator failure did one in too.

 

3-Yes,I`ve replaced one.Not that hard.Don`t think I paid that much for new.Junkyards are your friend for this part-very common.

[edrach]

Testing outside the car:

Make friends with the counter people at B&B Parts in Redmond. They have an electronic tester that will test your module for you at low speed and high speed. Try and let them allow you to do it since the clamp to ground the module is critical. If it's not properly connected the module will fail the test. Remember, their purpose is to sell you a new module.

 

Failure mode:

The Hitachi module almost never fails suddenly. It usually starts to give you intermittant no starts or failures before it finally dies. If it dies on you suddenly you're either very unlucky or not paying attention to the warning signs.

 

Rumor:

I was told that the Schuck's version of this module had a tendency to fail after you jump started another car with jumper cables. I don't know if that's true or not, but my first module failure was about a week after starting a friend's car with jumper cables.

 

Installation tip:

The underside of the module is probably a heatsink for the components. I always install mine with the white goop for better heat transfer (get a small tube of it from Radio shack). I don't know if that helps but I normally get many years out any module I've installed (and all of mine were pulled from cars at PAP and then tested at B&B so they are not "new").

 

Purchase tip:

The first one I bought at B&B, I was offered a price of $85, $125 and $200. I asked what's the difference? 90 day warranty, 1 year warranty, or lifetime warranty was the reply. I bought the $85 one and it lasted more than 5 years. Generally speaking when it comes to electronic components like this, if they were properly designed and manufactured they should last a long time. If not properly manufactured, they will usually fail within a week so the 90 day warranty is really all you need.

 

Smart tip:

Get one from a wreck at PAP and have it tested and keep it in your glove box for emergency repairs. Minimal tools are usually all you need to fix it on the road. And it's pretty easy to test: no spark, it's usually the module. If not, you've eliminated the cheapest part (if you get it from PAP).

 

All of these comments refer to the Hitachi ignition module. I have no idea if the ND version is prone to the same issues. I decided a long time ago to only "stock" parts for the Hitachi distributor because I thought it was easier to work with.

[edrach]

 

 

Replacing the dead component inside the distributor looks like a royal pain in the @$$, requiring disassembly of the distributor with tools that aren't typically in my toolbox.

 

When I head out on long road trips, I bring my tools, plus:

--alternator

--fuel pump

--fan belt

 

--Shane

 

You don't need the whole distributor; just the ignition module will do and you should add a known good one to your glove box.

 

The comments on distributor shaft wobble and faulty wiring that someone else mentioned are plainly visible if you check the innards of your distributor and should be resolved sooner rather than later especially if you're planning a long trip.

 

If you want a quick lesson on module removal/replacement, arrange to meet me at PAP some time when there is a known Hitachi distributor available and I'll show you the easy way to replace the module.

[snoutmeat]

Thanks for all the replies/comments:

 

GD: Coil is stock. Everything is stock. How would SPFI help my problem? (or is that just your .sig?)

 

Naru: cap, rotor, wires, and plugs are all ~3000 miles old. All looked good when I popped the hood (nothing loose, cap and rotor pretty free of build-up from sparks, etc). I suppose I can do a resistance check on the spark plug wires, but the engine was running well. Alternator is fine (per the gauge on the dash). When my dad's unit failed, the fuel pump had gone a week or two before, but I can't imagine that those two events would be related. In fact, it's possible that the fuel pump was fine and that the ignition was intermittent -- I wasn't involved with the troubleshooting or repair of the fuel pump. Now you've got me scared that the new one will blow too.

 

edrach: now that I know there's a way to pull the module that's not too difficult, I'll give it a try with the dead one. Sounds like a fun challenge. Do I need to punch out the roll pin that's holding the gear on at the bottom?

 

This afternoon, I tried running a resistance check on the unit that I assume is good, and it shows open whether it's spinning or still. Maybe it's bad. I'll try the diode check option, and can even feed it 12 volts from a power supply...I wonder what the tester at B&B is actually checking...

 

Thanks,

Shane

[GeneralDisorder]

GD: Coil is stock. Everything is stock. How would SPFI help my problem? (or is that just your .sig?)

 

SPFI has it's own distributor - crank angle sensor. No "module" to fail. It has no parts that really fail at all - it's got needle bearings on the shaft (instead of the crappy sleeve bushings of the carbs units), and an infrared optical pickup/interrupter disc. Nothing inside the disty touches except the shaft bearings. Very, very reliable.

 

Although I haven't had any modules fail in the carb disty's. But then I use only the ND carb disty's. I have had to have the bushings on the ND distys replaced - about $35. But never had to replace a module. Oh - and the aircraft guys use the ND unit too, and just add a second pickup too it. Plus the ND has a hotter spark due to it's matching ND coil wireing.

 

GD

[edrach]

edrach: now that I know there's a way to pull the module that's not too difficult, I'll give it a try with the dead one. Sounds like a fun challenge. Do I need to punch out the roll pin that's holding the gear on at the bottom?

 

No need to punch out the roll pin. With the distributor in the car (or held in place in a vise), use two screwdrivers to carefully pry the 4 point "star" unit. Do not nick the edges of it while doing this. Once that part is off the shaft, the module comes out easily with a small phillips screwdriver. Don't lose any of the spacers or hardware.

[edrach]

I wonder what the tester at B&B is actually checking...

The B&B tester simulates the pulses generated by the "star" gear to see if there is an equivalent output pulse to generate the spark with the coil. It does it at two speeds to make sure the unit works at low rpm and also at high rpm. The tester is not unique to our modules; it's a universal tester to check many brands of ignition modules.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I`ll Like to see that Tester... do you have a web link / images of it? ... Thanks!

Good Luck!

[edrach]

I`ll Like to see that Tester... do you have a web link / images of it? ... Thanks!

 

Good Luck!

It's a commercial tester and many of the autoparts stores have one. I'll try to get some more information on it.

[snoutmeat]

After a day at the Pull-a-part, I've discovered another source for the dead module inside my Hitachi distributor -- mid-80s Honda Civics (the really boxy ones) with 12 valve engines also use a Hitachi distributor, and the part number on the igniter (is that what it's called?)is the same. Ed, thanks for your tip on removing the "star". 2 slot screwdrivers to pop the star off, then a Phillips to take off the electronic doodad itself.

 

Best part: when I went to the checkout counter and showed the woman the 3 igniters I'd collected, she looked at the parts and said "bye!"

 

To be clear: the distributor is quite different -- shorter, no gear at the base, etc -- but the module itself is identical. The wires that come off the module should also be compatible because it ends in two brass eyelets that hook up to the coil, but there's a 3rd wire (ground?) as well. The wire disconnects from the module, so you don't need it anyway. On one older Honda (early '80s?), even the cap and rotor looked identical, but on the mid '80s models, the caps were held down with screws.

 

I just swapped one of the Honda parts into my BRAT and it works perfectly -- they're exactly the same part from Hitachi. Part number is the same and everything.

 

--Shane