Amount of time/work involved in pulling auto tranny '98 OBW?

[mnwolftrack]

1998 OBW automatic transmission (serial code TZ102Z2DBA-KF) diagnosed as a noisy front pump in a different thread:

 

How long would it take someone to replace the transmission? I've been wrenching for about 15 years, but mainly on Toyotas. I've pulled engines, transmissions, done clutch jobs, headgaskets, and pretty much pulled every possible nut/bolt off a toyota pickup/4Runner. I've got ramps, a cherry picker, etc.... and a good assortment of wrenches, sockets, stubbies etc.... I do not have a Haynes or Chilton's (except an online version of Chilton's which sucks).

 

This is my first Subaru I'd have to do any major work on, so it doesn't scare me, and I'm rather familiar with more than just a standard oil change....

 

Any good places to get a transmission? There are plenty advertised on http://www.car-part.com (many in the $400-$600 range). I called a local shop and they said they'd give me a free estimate, but it could be anywhere from $1200 to $3800. I'm not looking for a brand spanking new transmission (or getting ripped off) and don't want to put nearly as much into a transmission as is into the whole car. I'd rather replace it myself with a used one and save $$$.

[montana105]

Well with your experience I'd say you could easily do this in a day.Good sources of trannies include junkyards,find a low mileage wreck,you'll still be ahead if you have to have it shipped to you from elsewhere.There is a reliable outfit in Billings,Montana called Hansers transmission that does a good job on rebuilding,that's all they do,might look em up and give them a call see what it would cost for a rebuild and shippng.They actually own a junkyard or two and

specialize in pulling trannies and rebuilding them,wouldn't use them to do the actual R&R as they only have one master tech and have been known to gouge customers(yes i speak from experience) but their trannies and engines are top rate.

John

[tcspeer]

I got a transmission for a 97 Legacy wagon from Landry's in NH. for around 300.00 dollars I think it was 275.00 but it has been a while back, and it cost another 125.00 dollars to have it shipped from NH. to TX. by truck freight, and they will line that up for you. I do remember the whole transaction was under 500.00 dollars. Their number is 800-332-4937 and I checked them out with the B.B.B. before ordering and they checked out with no compaints in the last three years. The transmission is still working fine. The job is easy except for the torque converter bolts, they are a bit tough. You will also have to remove exhaust, but some of this is connected with hangers so it is easy. The job took me and one other person around nine hours, but this included replacing one of the wheel bearing also.

1998 OBW automatic transmission (serial code TZ102Z2DBA-KF) diagnosed as a noisy front pump in a different thread:

 

How long would it take someone to replace the transmission? I've been wrenching for about 15 years, but mainly on Toyotas. I've pulled engines, transmissions, done clutch jobs, headgaskets, and pretty much pulled every possible nut/bolt off a toyota pickup/4Runner. I've got ramps, a cherry picker, etc.... and a good assortment of wrenches, sockets, stubbies etc.... I do not have a Haynes or Chilton's (except an online version of Chilton's which sucks).

 

This is my first Subaru I'd have to do any major work on, so it doesn't scare me, and I'm rather familiar with more than just a standard oil change....

 

Any good places to get a transmission? There are plenty advertised on www.car-part.com (many in the $400-$600 range). I called a local shop and they said they'd give me a free estimate, but it could be anywhere from $1200 to $3800. I'm not looking for a brand spanking new transmission (or getting ripped off) and don't want to put nearly as much into a transmission as is into the whole car. I'd rather replace it myself with a used one and save $$$.

[idosubaru]

not too bad at all. you can have the transmission out in no time if you drop it from underneath, but that's not the preferred way to do it. getting it back in that way is tough.

 

easiest way, particularly for your first time is to pull the engine and transmission together out of the car. pull them out as an assembly, they'll both come out. much easier to separate them and reinstall that way.

 

you'll want to take a special precaution, again particularly on your first time with seating the torque converter. the last 1/4 to an 1/8" is very tricky to seat and it's hard to tell if it's really seated or not. it'll look like it's seated but it's not seated fully yet. you'll have to gradually turn and twist it while pulling/pushing in and out for it to finally seat the last 1/4". do not attempt to bolt it up and pull it together, that will crack the trans oil pump. i actually did it twice the first time i did it to make sure i understood how it seated fully.

[mnwolftrack]

If I pull the engine/transmission together, how long would you estimate a first timer with previous wrenching experience, vs. the time it takes for someone who's done this on Subaru's before (roughly speaking, of course)?

 

I've mainly worked on trucks/SUV's before, and it's always been easier to pull the transmission/transfercase by itself. It would "seem" to be a lot more work to pull the entire engine/transmission assembly.

[idosubaru]

when removing, i'll guess an extra hour or two to pull the engine and trans together versus dropping the trans. leave yourself plenty of room to go up with the lift to get it to clear the radiator upper support if you pull them together. the 4WD auto trans are rather heavy, but not impossible to move around yourself. but very difficult to install without any equipment or help getting it up.

[Skip]

The units you have worked on have full frames.

 

Bit of a different animal when the body is real tight to the tranny.

 

With your expierence this should be a walk in the park.

 

The equipment you list does not list a tranny jack, but I

will bet you have access to one.

 

I have to yank the tranny out of my 87 OB.

But I am a "one man band" with simaliar equipment.

 

I will pull the engine first.

Again a one man band has different problems with large masses. Plus I just replaced this engine.

 

The torque conv bolts and the driverside lower engine to tranny nut/stud is a bugger.

 

Careful with the nuts on the studs holding the exhaust to the heads.

Heat them cherry red first so the studs don't come out of the head if possible.

 

Hope this helps, I know you can do it in less than

5 hours.

PM or email me if you want some other "watch outs/tips"

(like get an engine equalizer for your cherry picker)

 

 

 

Bet your shop looks something like mine?

[mnwolftrack]

Well, I tried Landry's in NH and they didn't have anything in stock. I am waiting on a return call from Hanser's, though they told me they don't do much with Subaru.

[mnwolftrack]

I probably don't have quite as many tools, or a car (go cart?) suspended from my ceiling, but I do have enough to get me through most tasks. About the only work I have not done is ripped an auto transmission apart. I've dabbled a little bit in pulling manual transmissions apart, but that was only to replace a couple bearings.

 

I'm definately NOT used to frame-less autos then. I'm used to having to pull radiatiors, pull intake manifolds, and pull much of the engine accessories OFF before pulling an engine mainly because the electrical harnesses do not just unhook from the engine at a convenient plug. 5 hours to pull the engine??? Wow, that's fast! I'm used to a full day (and more) to pull an engine or transmission.

 

I technically do not have a tranny jack, but I have a heavy duty floor jack with a removable base plate that I can fashion another plate if need be, wrap chains around, etc.... Given the Subaru is a lot lower than my '85 Toyota 4x4 with 6" of lift running on 33's, this should be an easier drop if I just drop the tranny. I gather though, because of seating the torque converter, I will want to pull the engine as well to make sure it seats right. What I'm not quite getting is how do you know if it's seated right, that last 1/8 to 1/4 inch?

 

I've man-handled Toyota pickup/4Runner transmissions before. Those are quite frankly fairly light for what they are for 4x4's. If I take the transfer case off, I can easily carry them by myself. The transfer case makes it too long and bulky though.

[mnwolftrack]

when removing, i'll guess an extra hour or two to pull the engine and trans together versus dropping the trans. leave yourself plenty of room to go up with the lift to get it to clear the radiator upper support if you pull them together. the 4WD auto trans are rather heavy, but not impossible to move around yourself. but very difficult to install without any equipment or help getting it up.

 

 

I do have a cherry picker with a load leveler. I think my garage height is about 8 1/2 feet to the trusses (8' walls on 1 row of concrete block). Do I need to put the front wheels on ramps, or do I not need to worry about getting to too many bolts underneath (driveshafts, axle shafts, cross members, exhaust, wiring)? If I go too high, I'm not sure how much room I'd need with or without ramps or the car jacked up before I'd hit the ceiling with the cherry picker.

[mnwolftrack]

 

The torque conv bolts and the driverside lower engine to tranny nut/stud is a bugger.

 

are you referring if I leave the engine in and only pull the tranny, or are you referring to if I've pulled the engine/tranny out together?

 

Careful with the nuts on the studs holding the exhaust to the heads.

Heat them cherry red first so the studs don't come out of the head if possible.

 

I'm used to this happening on other vehicles. Is it difficult to put the studs back in if they've come out? Normally, I just double/nut two nuts together on a stud, put the stud in, then take the two nuts back off (so I can get the manifold back on).

 

Hope this helps, I know you can do it in less than

5 hours.

PM or email me if you want some other "watch outs/tips"

(like get an engine equalizer for your cherry picker)

 

Some pointers would be most appreciated. 5 hours for the whole swap, or 5 hours just to pull the engine/trans together?

 

The worst part for me at my level of experience is just finding where all the bolts are that need to be removed for various items, and how to deform my body parts to fit into tight places to get said bolts off (especially for bolts that can't be seen directly).

 

Ideally, I want to go into this project with enough anticipation of those watchouts/tips that it feels like I've already done this kind of job before on this car.

 

I actually have two identicle 1998 OBW's (same color even), so the more I learn, the better, because I like to do my own work.

[tcspeer]

Give junk yard dog a chance, it is a place you post what you need and it goes out on the web to many yards and the ones that have what you are hunting will get back to you by e-mail with details, You should get back seven or eight offers on a transmission if you post there. Just make sure to check them out with the B.B.B. before buying.

Well, I tried Landry's in NH and they didn't have anything in stock. I am waiting on a return call from Hanser's, though they told me they don't do much with Subaru.

[mnwolftrack]

Will do. I haven't tried that one yet. About 5 years ago I used to use a "wanted" board similar in concept to what you describe, but I don't think it was junk yard dog. I don't even remember what it was. At the time though, there were very few salvage yards using that board, and there were a few that always responded to everything (with rediculous prices).

[tcspeer]

Yes there is a few yards that will contact you everytime here also, you will come to know them after using this site a few times and you can just ignore them. But this is how I found my transmission from Landrys, and many other good deals over the past year.

Will do. I haven't tried that one yet. About 5 years ago I used to use a "wanted" board similar in concept to what you describe, but I don't think it was junk yard dog. I don't even remember what it was. At the time though, there were very few salvage yards using that board, and there were a few that always responded to everything (with rediculous prices).

[mnwolftrack]

Cool. I just filled out the form at junkyarddog. I already got one auto response from some place in Penn, but it just tells me to call them because it's faster.... We'll see what happens!

 

I know of one transmission already pulled at a local salvage yard that I called directly, but I'm thinking their price might be a little high.

[idosubaru]

are you referring if I leave the engine in and only pull the tranny, or are you referring to if I've pulled the engine/tranny out together?

this is the case if you're separating the engine and trans in the car. if you have good tools and access and are familiar, which it sounds like you are, with this type of work i think you'll find it not that bad, just a tad annoying maybe.

 

I'm used to this happening on other vehicles. Is it difficult to put the studs back in if they've come out? Normally, I just double/nut two nuts together on a stud, put the stud in, then take the two nuts back off (so I can get the manifold back on)

i just use new studs and nuts. i use studs from the auto parts store, they'll have boxes of them, just pick one that matches. they'll say "we don't carry that one" if they look up your model, but they'll have one nearly exactly the same that works fine. you'll figure it out if you take one to the store with you, very simple.

 

i would guess he's quoting 5 hours total time.

 

to remove. remove the exhaust. remove the rear driveshaft from the extension housing. unbolt the carrier housing from the vehicle, two 17 mm bolts i believe and it should pull out. 4 12mm bolt to actually separate the two halves of the driveshaft if you want or need to, but i don't think it's necessary if you don't mind it hanging in the way slightly. knock the two pins out of the CV axles where they attach to the trans. may have to unbolt the strut from the hub (two lower bolts) to gain enough clearance for the axles to slide off the trans stubs. ive removed axles from a trans by removing them once i started pulling the trans, but it required quite a bit of stress on the axles and some persuasion via large tools, i wouldn't want to do that on a non-parts car. disconnect the shifter linkage, easy. disconnect the speedo cable, unscrew it from the transmission side, that's easy as well. remove the rear trans cross member mounting bolts (4 i think). remove the flex plate bolts from the torque converter through the rubber plug filled access hole on top the bell housing. it's right underneath your intake hose/throttle body, can't miss it. remove plug and keep rotating the motor until you remove all the torque coverter bolts. disconnect the transmission wiring harness. unbolt the transmission fluid hoses. now you're ready to remove the bellhousing bolts and separate the transmission from the engine. gradually work your way around. i think you'll also have to loosen your engine mount bolts and get a jack under the front of your engine to tilt the engine/trans combo "back" so the tail of the trans starts pointing down. i could be wrong, but i think you'll need to do that to get the clearance for the trans to come out. and you'll want it angled that way for installation as well.

 

if you need to tilt the engine in this way, it's not a bad time to consider replacing the engine oil pan seal if needed. the way the sump in the pan is situated the engine has to be tilted in this manner to replace the oil pan gasket, so now's the time to do it if you think it might need it.

 

you can prep the transmission you're going to install ahead of time. install a new rear output shaft seal and torque converter seal. install new hoses on the transmission before installing it, much easier out of the car than in it. now's a good time to install an aftermarket ATF cooler and/or an ATF temp sensor if you think you'll need it. depends on your driving habits and what the vehicle is used for. install the ATF temp sensor first to get a reading on your temps.

 

you'll want a new separator plate gasket (back of the engine, next to the rear main seal), and possible a new separator plate if yours is plastic. you can search about that here on the boards, you'll want a metal one as they plastic ones can crack. some say replace the rear main seal while you're in there as well. i typically replace them while i'm there, but i will say that subaru rear mains in my experience are the least likely seal to leak, so make your decision based on that. i recall two recently replace rear main seals leaking last year - mr. radon and steve - both had newly replaced rear mains start leaking on them.

 

i'll also mention the torque converter shaft has what's called a ring seal on it. make sure you note exactly where and how it fits on the shaft just in case the used one you buy has it missing or it's loose. try and note the one that comes out of the transmission in your car, it should still be in place as you slide the torque converter out. it's like a C shaped graphite seal that goes around the shaft that slides into the trans. very strange seal, Subaru only part for sure.

[mnwolftrack]

Thanks for all the info!

 

I just called a local auto shop, and their book time is only 4.5 hours to swap a transmission. (wow, I say, that is fast). They only wanted $335 to do it. So, I can't imagine that is is really all that hard. I'm just in denial because it's not what I'm used to.

 

Now, my only delimma is whether to pull the engine/trans together or pull just the trans. If anyone could help better describe what that last 1/4" to 1/8" of joining a tranny and engine back together really entails, it would help a lot. I've probably had to deal with worse issues (such as removing the cross over pipe on a Toyota 3.0L V6, or swapping coil packs and wires on a Land River Discovery II, or the upper two tranny to engine block bolts on toyota pickups and 4Runners without body lifts).

[nipper]

Thanks for all the info!

 

I just called a local auto shop, and their book time is only 4.5 hours to swap a transmission. (wow, I say, that is fast). They only wanted $335 to do it. So, I can't imagine that is is really all that hard. I'm just in denial because it's not what I'm used to.

 

Now, my only delimma is whether to pull the engine/trans together or pull just the trans. If anyone could help better describe what that last 1/4" to 1/8" of joining a tranny and engine back together really entails, it would help a lot. I've probably had to deal with worse issues (such as removing the cross over pipe on a Toyota 3.0L V6, or swapping coil packs and wires on a Land River Discovery II, or the upper two tranny to engine block bolts on toyota pickups and 4Runners without body lifts).

 

Remember, everything is faster when you have lift and air tools.

 

nipper

[johnceggleston]

i can't be specific about putting the torqur converter on to the trans, because i've never done it. but some one posted it would be a good idea to measure the distances from the TC to the trans/diff befroe you disaessemble it so you know what to shoot for when you put it back together. you'll have a reference point. sounds like a good idea to me.

 

on another thought. for 335$ i'd probably pay the guy ot install the trans for me. of course there's the ATFluid and the seperator plate replacement on the rear of the engine to add in if it hasn't been done. just a thought.