patkennedy78 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Hey everybody, it's been a while since I last posted, but I lurk around here every so often. Well, I got around to doing some repairs to my Soob today, and ran into some troubles. I put in some new intake manifold gaskets (loosing / burning coolant with new hoses and decent compression test numbers) plugs & wires (it was time), and a new alternator (had the flickering 'bat' and 'CEL'). Everything went really well. But during the repairs I heard one of those little metal 'tings' or 'pings' like a small clip or spring shooting off of something. I thought I saw something go in the direction of the pullys / belts, but couldn't find anything when I looked around. So I get her all back together and am excited to start it up. I put the key in, and try to turn it over and it just kind of gets stuck. I'm not sure how to explain it, but the engine starts to turn over, then stops. It's like if you'd put a stick in the spokes of a bicycle before you started to pedal, you'd kind of get started, then just stop. I can move the alternator pully and watch everything turn back wards for a bit, but when I turn it forwards it comes to a point where nothing will move any longer. I'm thinking the noise I heard was something getting lodged in the belts / pullys. I highly doubt something fell down the plug holes, but I guess anythings possible. I'm really not to sure where to begin on this one, so I could sure use some help. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Can you rotate the engine backwards 360 degrees? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 I'm not sure about a full 360. After I try to start it and it won't go any further, it turns a decent amount backwards. Should I be able to go farther than 360 back? And is there another way to turn the engine by hand other than with the alternator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 i was just wondering if the flexplate/clutch had anything to do with it. Is this a stick or automatic nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 92 Loyal Sedan, 5spd, pushbutton 4wd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It's hard not knwoing what the sound is. Did you mess with the valves at all? This is not an interference engine. You can disconnect all the accessory drive belts and see if it will crank then. Did you leave a wrench anywhere? What exactly did you do to the engine, what work before this? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It really does sound like something fell and is lodged. I can't think of any spring that will be around where you were working but it could have been a small nut or bolt or tool. If you can turn the engine over backwards by hand it may dislodge it. You may have to take the spark plugs out to do that. Take a good look, and feel around and behind the pulleys. Is it out of gear? Sorry, just had to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 You'll hate me, but......... Are you 100% positive that one of the intake manifold washers fidn't go down one of the intake or spark plug holes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoomer Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 You'll hate me, but......... Are you 100% positive that one of the intake manifold washers fidn't go down one of the intake or spark plug holes? That happened to me. It was still able to turn over. It just started ticking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 You'll hate me, but......... Are you 100% positive that one of the intake manifold washers fidn't go down one of the intake or spark plug holes? Intake Manifold WASHERS??? Sh*t, I didn't see any washers doing this job. When I pry'ed the gaskets out, they came out in one piece, and I didn't see anything else sandwitched in there. Would there have been 6 washers, 3 on each side, like the bolts? Cuz I didn't see a one of them. If so, they didn't make it down the plug holes, cuz the plugs were in when the manifold was off. So I guess they all could have fallen in the intake. I was not in gear when I tried to start it, I had all my tools when I finished, and no spare parts. I'm going to pull the plugs and take off both belts and see what I see. Any other suggestions or advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Any other suggestions or advice? Any chance significant coolant got down an intake? Water won't compress and stop the piston dead. Turn crank with a wrench to avoid breaking anything. See/feel when it stops. turn the opposite direction. Determine if it is only on the compression stroke or any time the piston is at the top of the bore. Maybe this will give a clue. Remove spark plug/s, try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Murphies law of engines: If there is any chance of a foreign part finding an open valve it will nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 he probably means the washers from the intake manifold bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 he probably means the washers from the intake manifold bolts. Yes. I am known for my clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie_newbie Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 to turn the engine by hand, use a socket and breaker bar or long socket wrench on the bolt in the center of the crank pulley. Rotate the engine backwards to dislodge whatever may be lodged whereever it may be. If that doesn't work, something's probably in the cyliner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospeeder Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 my engine never had washers for the intake manifold. It could have been coolant inside a cylinder and it wont compress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 my engine never had washers for the intake manifold. It could have been coolant inside a cylinder and it wont compress. Take out all the plugs and see what happens. Crank it by hand and see if anything comes out. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Any chance significant coolant got down an intake? Water won't compress and stop the piston dead. my engine never had washers for the intake manifold. It could have been coolant inside a cylinder and it wont compress. I think this is exactly what happened here. I went back out today and pulled both v-belts off. All the pullys are spinning fine, but I couldn't move the crank pully by hand. So I tried to start it and got the same result as before. I pulled all the plugs, and tired to start it again. It turned over and quite a bit of something (not sure if it was oil, coolant, gas, or all 3) shot out of the plug holes. So that made me feel better that it turned over. I pulled the fuel pump fuse, and grounded out the coil, and turned it over a couple more times to get things to dry out. So now it sits! It's in the carport with the plugs out, and hood partially down, so things should evaporate and dry out. I'm going to grab a new set of belts and idler pully here in the next day or two. Is there anything else I can do to clear out whatever else that may have gotten into the cylindars? Btw, thanks for the great suggestions this far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 You still need a compression test. The way that damage occurs with hydraulic lock is that the connecting rod gets bent. The starter motor doesnt have enough torque to do that, and you werent clear (or i dont remember) if the car actually started. Otherwise you may have ducked the bullet. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 It never actually turned over until I took the plugs out today. I have a compression tester, after I get the belts back on and things squared away I'll hook it up and post the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Dain Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 He must not have drained the radiator before removing the intake? therefore the coolant overflowed down the heads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Dain']He must not have drained the radiator before removing the intake? therefore the coolant overflowed down the heads? Nope, I sure didn't. But I will now. I found half the drain plug broken off while I was under the car. I'm not sure when or how that happened, but there's enough lodged in there to hold. I guess I'll just drill the lil' bugger out, good thing it's plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I guess I'll just drill the lil' bugger out, good thing it's plastic. I re-tap the hole for 1/8" pipe thread and use a 1/8" brass valve. Add a 6" piece of hose on the other side, and you can catch all of the coolant instead of getting half of the frame wet and puddles all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patkennedy78 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 You still need a compression test. The way that damage occurs with hydraulic lock is that the connecting rod gets bent. The starter motor doesnt have enough torque to do that, and you werent clear (or i dont remember) if the car actually started. Otherwise you may have ducked the bullet. nipper So at this point what can I do to avoid bent rods and / or more hydrolic lock? (I assume that's the name for coolant / water in your cylinders preventing the engine from turning over) I'm going to turn it over a few more times with the fuel pump and spark disabled to try and make sure everything is out of the cylinders and dry. Then I'll be putting the new belts on and plugs back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I cant see any reason why pouring about a half a cup or so of 91% isopropyl alcohol into each cylinder before turning it over a couple times could hurt anything, and adding the alcohol will make any liquid still in there that much more prone to evaporation... BUT you are probably fine at this point, as far as remaining coolant/etc in your cylinders Hopefully no damage ensued from the minimal force exerted on it by the starter.... Good Luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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