hatchsub Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Ok on the way to Carlisle this summer i blew out the accel superstock coil that was in my car. In the process it blew one of my fuses (i changed out all my fusable links for fuses for ease of diagnosing). Anyways i replaced the accel with the stock coil again and proceeded to drive almost 1000 miles on the original coil when just today it died again. It will crank but its obviously the coil cause the tach does not move when its cranking. What would cause two coils to burn out in the span of a week? Here are the mods to the car if it helps... Weber carb (car is mostly de-emissioned) 5 speed swap XT6 alt swap I dont suppose the higher output of the alt could cause it to go could it? The gauge stays right at 15 amps which is a bit higher than i would like but i dont nessisarily trust it either. It never goes higher than that though so i figured it was just fine. Im getting really frustrated with this car right now. I used to trust it alot and now i dont. Its let me down alot this year with its starter issues and fusable link problems and now this coil problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Could be that the grounds are corroded. Go around and check/clean them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Check to see if voltage is getting to both sides of the coil using a voltmeter and with the ignition switch set to the RUN position. If you have voltage getting to both sides of the coil then it is ok and something else is causing the trouble. Once you get the car running then check the voltage at the battery with the engine running at around 2,000 RPM. If the voltage exceeds more than 15.25 volts the voltage regulator in the alternator is bad and you need to replace the alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 [quote name='Cougar']Check to see if voltage is getting to both sides of the coil using a voltmeter and with the ignition switch set to the RUN position. If you have voltage getting to both sides of the coil then it is ok and something else is causing the trouble. Once you get the car running then check the voltage at the battery with the engine running at around 2,000 RPM. If the voltage exceeds more than 15.25 volts the voltage regulator in the alternator is bad and you need to replace the alternator.[/quote] Ok thanks for the replys..both of you. Ill look into it when i get a chance. Im pretty sure that when i check the coil it will show that voltage is not reaching one side cause this same problem just happened a week ago and the solution was the original coil. I will check the battery too once i get it up and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom63050 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Ok thanks for the replys..both of you. Ill look into it when i get a chance. Im pretty sure that when i check the coil it will show that voltage is not reaching one side cause this same problem just happened a week ago and the solution was the original coil. I will check the battery too once i get it up and running. Accel coils are a known issue, as are some MSDs. I've had a bad Accel, a bad MSD, and a bad Pertronix. The problem is that some of these coils are made in Taiwan and Mexico and there are quality issues. Some are still made in the states, certain MSDs I think. I bought a coil from Jegs ( www.jegs.com ) 1-800-345-4545, part # 555-40105, made in the USA. Works great. (From the info below, I suspect it's a red MSD Blaster III coil made in Andover, but without the MSD label.) But I keep the OEM coil in the trunk along with tools to change it out, just in case. I hate Murphy's law. Below is a writeup from another post ("Another Accel Super Coil dead"). MSD/Accel round coil info As most here know, I am in the ignition system business. That said, there is information I'd like to post on coils. I used to recommend MSD Blaster II and III coils for my HEI conversions. They used to work well. These coils used to be manufactured at Andover Industries, Andover, Indiana, and were of superior quality. In early 2000, production of RED MSD Blaster II and III coils, p/n's 8202, 8203 and 8223, was moved from Andover to a company in Mexico, Pro-Bobbin. When this happened, I started to experience HEI module failures for no apparent reason. Others did as well, and MSD box failures when the RED Blasters were used. It was so untraceable that the problem would only be found by changing the coil. The cause was the insulation materials between the wire windings was deteroratinf and falling away from the coils, causing a layer shorting of the coils, and change of resistance/load on the module/box and failure of same. The 8200 chrome Blaster II coils remained at Andover, and had only the regular failure rates one would expect from a mass produced coil, functioned correctly. Sometime last year, production of the 8223 RED Blaster III coils with the HEI terminal,was returned to Andover. When I finally figured it all out, I switched my recommendations on coils to Accel round Super-Stock, made at Andover. Good quality coils, problems stopped, up until about a month ago. IN the last month, numerous Accel coils, 8140 and 8140C, were coming up either new defective or had operating issues like missing, erratic idle, no performance. This was traced to a move in production in the Accel coils. Accel was sold earlier this year, off the Dana Corporation, and the Accel coil production was moved form Andover to Taiwan. It was these Taiwan Accel coils that were having the issues. I have vended 19 Taiwan Accel coils in the last month, had 16 of them defective/develope problems with under 2 hours run time on them. No more Accel recommendations for me anymore. To identify different Accel round Super Stock coils: Andover Accels have segmented crimping at the top of the case to retain the top, with raised sections around the top. Taiwan Accels have a clean full crimp around the whole circumfrence of the top of the case. AVOID THE ACCEL TAIWAN COILS. Coils and their origins: MSD, 8200, and now, 8223 Blaster II, III series, Andover, good quality 8202, 8203 Blaster II series, Pro-bobbin, Mexico, avoid Accel 8140/8140C, 8145/8145C, Taiwan, avoid A good black coil with the same specs as the good Andover Accel is the NAPA IC12, same specs. AVOID the lesser cost NAPA IC12SB, Mexico made, low quality Crane PS20, PS40, Andover, quality PerTronix, NO, Taiwan, reboxed with USA logo, avoid Mallory round coils, no info Jacobs coils, overpriced Taiwan, avoid Hope this info stops someone from getting a problem coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 The Accel coil may have damaged the ignitor in the distributor. The experience of this board indicates that ALL aftermarket coils are potential problems for EA series distributors. Almost all distributor module failures are a result of this kind of jiggery-pokery with ignition components (coils, plugs/gap, or wires). Use the stock Hitachi or ND coil - they cost MORE than the supposed "high performance" units from Accel and MSD ect, and are resistance matched to the distributor module. Many have run for several decades without failure, and there's no evidence that a "higher performing" coil translates to any measureable amount of performance gain other than the obvious 25 HP gain from the yellow paint or faux-chrome. The spark plug has ONE job - to ignite the mixture. It either does, or does not accomplish this task on each cylinder compression stroke. For all practical purposes there is no such thing as a "better" ignition, or a "more complete" ignition. That's just marketing hype that's targeting the wallets of mindless consumers. It's like putting a towel rack on a Honda - the car will never see speeds sufficient to warrant the application, nor would attaching it to the flimsy trunk lid do any kind of suspension loading. If the plug does not ignite the charge, you will encounter a noticeable "miss" and your emissions will go through the roof. This is almost always a result of poorly gapped plugs or old deteriorated plug wires. The original coils rarely die, and are of much superior quality to the aftermarket units. The Subaru engineers knew their stuff, and the ignition system is designed to ignite the mixture with well over a 99.9% probablility. There's almost no room for improvement here, and anyone that tells you differently really doesn't have a decent grasp of the overall design and intended purpose of the EA series engines. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 well as of now i still think its the coil cause when im cranking the tach does not move. If you didnt catch it..this all happened again with the original coil. Could the ignitor also cause this same thing to happen? If so..how do i go about testing to see if the ignitor is bad? If it is bad do i need a new (or old) distributor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Using your voltmeter and with the ignition ON, measure the voltage across the plus and minus side of the coil. If you have more than a few volts there then the coil is open and it needs to be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Could the ignitor also cause this same thing to happen? Definetly yes. If so..how do i go about testing to see if the ignitor is bad? Short version/ If the coil is OK and you have 12V but no spark,the ignitor is suspect. If it is bad do i need a new (or old) distributor? Yes,no,maybe... You can swap ignitors,but,a used disty from the wreckers is easiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 the ignitor is the small electrical gizmo attached to the bracket with the ignition coil. that likely needs replaced. i would start there. i do not know if there's a way to test it or not, i would just swap in another one that isn't fried. i would also recommend using a stock Subaru only coil. aftermarkets are known to have problems. you are not the first one to have problems running and aftermarket coil. the easiest, most reliable and economical solution is to use a stock subaru unit and store a spare coil in the trunk, though they rarely fail if everything else is working properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Using your voltmeter and with the ignition ON, measure the voltage across the plus and minus side of the coil. If you have more than a few volts there then the coil is open and it needs to be replaced. Actually,when measuring votage across the coil terminals,both an open and a good coil will read 0 volts.(no current flow w/stopped engine,coil negative is ungrounded) When reading between ground and coil negative: 1 An open coil will read 0 volts. 2 A non-open coil will read 12 volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 the ignitor is the small electrical gizmo attached to the bracket with the ignition coil. Not on an EA-81.Ignitor/ignition module is inside the ditzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Thanks for the correction on that Naru. You are right. Unless current is flowing through the coil then the voltage will be the same on each side. Ohm's Law never fails. The best thing to do is measure the voltage on each side of the coil with reference to ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 Update on the situation...i had gotten so frustrated to begin with i had a my shop look at it since i dont have too much free time to mess around with it. Im a bit embarassed to admit this but in my hast of swapping coils i hooked up the original one incorrectly. I must have just put one wire where it wasnt meant to be. Anyhow that is the reason why it fried out..and took my distributor with it. Now i need an EA81 coil and a nippo denso distributor for an sedan Fwd. GRRRREEAAAT. Luckily they are good guys down at my shop and kno that i dont have too much cash so they just diagnosed it for me and put all wires where they should be but didnt bother replacing the distributor or the coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I would just get a pickup from a parts store and repair the disty. A new coil shouldn't be too bad either. There are also folks selling parts in the parts for sale area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 Which part is the pickup? Thats not the term that my shop used to describe the part so im not sure what to be looking for. As for new coils..try 100 bucks from subaru..um yea not doing that. Im going used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 I was refering to the crank sensor in the disty as the pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 I was refering to the crank sensor in the disty as the pickup. Would an ea81 have a crank sensor? do you just mean the coil/magnet type pickup? Also look on ebay. A store called *ufixitautoparts* they have a coil listed for subaru for 10 dollars. not sure if it excactly right but maybe somecould tell you if it would work. looks like it's listed to fit the early ea82 MPFI set-up.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mazda-GLC-Subaru-1800-Volkswagen-Rabbit-Ignition-Coil_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33689QQihZ005QQitemZ150128350578 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 You are right Gloyale it is a pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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