pisces_0 Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 A couple of things going on here that could be wrong. 1) Your fuel pump is cycling on and off when the key is turned to the "ON" position? Are you sure the test mode & read memory connectors aren't plugged in? When these connectors are hooked up the fuel pump will cycle and the codes can be read. Not sure if the car isn't startable in this mode, but the on/off cycling sounded weird to me. 2) Is there a switched 12V source wired in to the self-shutoff control wire on the ECU? Without a switched 12V source to this wire the ignition relay won't energize and you won't get power to most of the needed components in the engine bay, ignition coil included. BTW, the self-shutoff control wire is light green and is pin F47-5 on the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 26, 2007 Author Share Posted July 26, 2007 The light green wire is hooked to a constant 12v source, and when the key is in the on position it sounds like it goes on then off on then off over and over, Just thought that was normal?? Tony~ A couple of things going on here that could be wrong. 1) Your fuel pump is cycling on and off when the key is turned to the "ON" position? Are you sure the test mode & read memory connectors aren't plugged in? When these connectors are hooked up the fuel pump will cycle and the codes can be read. Not sure if the car isn't startable in this mode, but the on/off cycling sounded weird to me. 2) Is there a switched 12V source wired in to the self-shutoff control wire on the ECU? Without a switched 12V source to this wire the ignition relay won't energize and you won't get power to most of the needed components in the engine bay, ignition coil included. BTW, the self-shutoff control wire is light green and is pin F47-5 on the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Let me ask the obvious questions.First all How do you know you dont have power to coil?And secondly do you have fuel getting to the engine.Is it possible you mixed up the fuel In and fuel out ports on the EJ?loosen the fuel supply hose and what for spray.if no spray you have a fuel delivery problem.If you have fuel check to make sure that the fuel supply line is to the correct fuel line on the Ej22.IIRC it is the lower line that large.I would go out and check for you but right now its dark and im in my skivies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 wow....let's get a few things straight the car will start fine without a neutral start switch. in stock form, the neutral start switch will bypass the starter relay, and nothing else. so, if it's turning over, that's not your problem. next, the alternator does nothing but charge the battery. car will run fine without it. the fuel pump shouldn't cycle on and off repeatedly. it should turn on for a couple seconds as soon as you turn the ignition on, and then turn off....and stay off until you start the car. I have it wired (how I did it on mine) EVERYTHING on the engine harness that needs power, gets it directly from the main relay. and the main relay gets it straight from the battery, that little green wire from the relay simply turns the relay on/off....if it's cycling, you've got the test mode connectors connected. there should be 2 pairs of plugs right next to the ECU, each with 2 wire, one pair is green, the other black. all 4 of these should be unplugged (one pair is check mode, the other is test). I don't know if test mode would prevent power anywhere.....but it can't help. SO, plan of action (starting simple): 1. unplug test/check mode connectors 2. check the fuse wired in just after the battery. if this is blown, you won't have power to the whole circuit (although if the fuel pump works at all, theoretically the fuse should be fine...but it can't hurt to check it) 3. check for fuel delivery (also not likely to be your problem, but would be good and easy to check). unplug the line between the underhood fuel filter and the engine and insert into suitable container, turn ignition on. fuel pump should cycle on for a moment, and you should have fuel coming out. 4. get/make yourself a 12v test light, and check for power to the main relay. both of the 2 yellow wires should have power all the time. then check for power from the relay, both yellow with red wires should have power with ign on and relay plugged in (you can reach a contact pretty easily from the back of the relay plug with the relay plugged in. 5. use said test light to check for power at the yellow with red stripe wires on all 4 injectors, and the 02 sensor plug, and the yellow wire at the coil (again...I know :-p ). 6. report back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 26, 2007 Author Share Posted July 26, 2007 when I pulled the plug wire off the coil there is no spark and i checked it with a electrical tester. The coil at the plug in where it is wired and the second ful pump relay wire isnt getting power ether?? Let me ask the obvious questions.First all How do you know you dont have power to coil?And secondly do you have fuel getting to the engine.Is it possible you mixed up the fuel In and fuel out ports on the EJ?loosen the fuel supply hose and what for spray.if no spray you have a fuel delivery problem.If you have fuel check to make sure that the fuel supply line is to the correct fuel line on the Ej22.IIRC it is the lower line that large.I would go out and check for you but right now its dark and im in my skivies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 26, 2007 Author Share Posted July 26, 2007 Ok I will!! Wont be till tonight but I will:) Tony~ wow....let's get a few things straight the car will start fine without a neutral start switch. in stock form, the neutral start switch will bypass the starter relay, and nothing else. so, if it's turning over, that's not your problem. next, the alternator does nothing but charge the battery. car will run fine without it. the fuel pump shouldn't cycle on and off repeatedly. it should turn on for a couple seconds as soon as you turn the ignition on, and then turn off....and stay off until you start the car. I have it wired (how I did it on mine) EVERYTHING on the engine harness that needs power, gets it directly from the main relay. and the main relay gets it straight from the battery, that little green wire from the relay simply turns the relay on/off....if it's cycling, you've got the test mode connectors connected. there should be 2 pairs of plugs right next to the ECU, each with 2 wire, one pair is green, the other black. all 4 of these should be unplugged (one pair is check mode, the other is test). I don't know if test mode would prevent power anywhere.....but it can't help. SO, plan of action (starting simple): 1. unplug test/check mode connectors 2. check the fuse wired in just after the battery. if this is blown, you won't have power to the whole circuit (although if the fuel pump works at all, theoretically the fuse should be fine...but it can't hurt to check it) 3. check for fuel delivery (also not likely to be your problem, but would be good and easy to check). unplug the line between the underhood fuel filter and the engine and insert into suitable container, turn ignition on. fuel pump should cycle on for a moment, and you should have fuel coming out. 4. get/make yourself a 12v test light, and check for power to the main relay. both of the 2 yellow wires should have power all the time. then check for power from the relay, both yellow with red wires should have power with ign on and relay plugged in (you can reach a contact pretty easily from the back of the relay plug with the relay plugged in. 5. use said test light to check for power at the yellow with red stripe wires on all 4 injectors, and the 02 sensor plug, and the yellow wire at the coil (again...I know :-p ). 6. report back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 Ok, this is what I found out tonight. I pulled the plug that plugs in to the coil(the plug with three wires) and checked each wire for power with a 12v tester, and nothing. So I started to look harder and I pulled the in-fuel line right after the filter and no fuel. So I must have the fuel pump hooked up backwards?? Right. So with that said, is that why one of the fuel pump relay wires (big yellow one) isnt getting any power and would that be why no power to the coil aswell?? Tony~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Ok, this is what I found out tonight. I pulled the plug that plugs in to the coil(the plug with three wires) and checked each wire for power with a 12v tester, and nothing. So I started to look harder and I pulled the in-fuel line right after the filter and no fuel. So I must have the fuel pump hooked up backwards?? Right. So with that said, is that why one of the fuel pump relay wires (big yellow one) isnt getting any power and would that be why no power to the coil aswell?? Tony~ I'm confused....did you hear the fuel pump come on? if you don't have power at the large yellow wire on the fuel pump relay (should come straight form the main relay)....than the pump can't come on. so if you don't have power....you're obviously not going to have fuel....so check the fuse, than check for power at the main relay, than the fuel pump relay, than the few places on the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 Well I could hear the fuel pump ingage when I turned the car to the on position and my buddy was studing some wiring diagrams and said that the wires where backwards, so I switched them and it makes the same noise. It cycle's on for a moment and then turns off when the key is in the on position. There is two large yellow/red or yellow wires that come out of the fuel pump relay and one of them isnt getting any power, dont know if all the wires that come out of the fuel relay need power but I was thinking that this might be linked to the coil as well?? But I'm just as confused as you, I will take some pic's of how I have the fuel lines hooked up so you can see them ok, then we will go from there OK.:-\ Tony~ I'm confused....did you hear the fuel pump come on? if you don't have power at the large yellow wire on the fuel pump relay (should come straight form the main relay)....than the pump can't come on. so if you don't have power....you're obviously not going to have fuel....so check the fuse, than check for power at the main relay, than the fuel pump relay, than the few places on the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 It appears that power is getting to the fuel pump ok since you could hear it briefly. The problem you should work on now is finding what is causing the lack of power to the ignition system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 if the fuel pump is coming on, then there's something wrong with your testing methods at the relay.... unplug the main relay (brown, 6-pin), and check for power at the 2 large yellow wires. then plug in the main relay, and unplug the fuel pump relay (green plug, 4-pin), and check for power at the 2 yellow wires with the ignition on. the fuel pump cannot come on without power to both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 yes that is my biggest concern right now but i would like to know why there is no fuel getting to the engine. Tony~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 The fuel pump is cycling for a second or so when you first turn the key to on, but not starting it. Tony~ if the fuel pump is coming on, then there's something wrong with your testing methods at the relay.... unplug the main relay (brown, 6-pin), and check for power at the 2 large yellow wires. then plug in the main relay, and unplug the fuel pump relay (green plug, 4-pin), and check for power at the 2 yellow wires with the ignition on. the fuel pump cannot come on without power to both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 If the ECU doesn't sense the ignition system is working then it shuts down the fuel delivery system. It's a safety feature. The ignition must work first before you can really see if there is any trouble with the fuel system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 The fuel pump is cycling for a second or so when you first turn the key to on, but not starting it. Tony~ This is normal. Not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 Thank you for that, that is a big relief. So if I find out why the coil doesnt have power then the fuel system will start to work, GREAT!! Thanks again, Tony~ This is normal. Not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 You're welcome for the help. You may have some other trouble to check once you get the ignition going but probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 yes there will be more question's to come, I do know this. Tony~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarpachy Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 ok quick recap. test mode connectors have never been hooked up, so we are good there. the fuel pump comes on for just one quick priming when ignition is on, normal there. i ll make sure the fuel lines are hooked up correct, so not to worried about that. the vehicle speed sensor should only matter for cruise control or auto trans shiftiing, (right).? So no need to bother with that. I know the nuetral safety switch is only to disable starter. Are you sure it does not need ground or power in order to give ignition system, i.e. engine controls some signal. Assuming the new wiring harness is correct, ignition circut wire from ecu to 12v+ ,i wired into switched main ignition wire. and the one labeled as starter switch i spliced in to the start postion 12v+ on ignition switch. do you know what color those wires. i am not at home or i would tell you what colors they are, and if it is right. If i had those switched around could that be causeing it.? I know my main fuse is good or i would not have power to main and fuel relay. again i m not where i can check power to both yellows, and yellow/red right now. i do remember that main relay has power at both yellows. and i do remember that only one yellow on fuel relay has power. And remember donor car ran good. I just think that i have those two ecu wires for ignition reversed. what do you guys think. I will check to see if any other engine controls have power, at least to isolate that i dont have a freak coil go out on me. Thing is, when i turn key on and off i know the fuel relay works and the main relay clicks on also. So would they do that if i had the same two wires hooked up backwords? i have to have something hooked up wrong. but where.? Thanks for your guys input. it is greatly appreciated.: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarpachy Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 the post above was supposed to be uner pink socks post but it would not submit so i had to join you guys. glad to be here. again thanks for all the good info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 I need to know what wire harness you are using for this mod. For what year and model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 I have a 1985 GL wagon 5speed 4x4, and im doing a EA82-EJ22 swap. My donor car was a 1990 legacy 4x4 auto trans with a 2.2L non-turbo in it. Numbchux did my wiring harness and ive done all the mechanical stuff. Scarpachy is a friend of mine who got me into suby's and he knows about basic electrical and a LOT about SUBARU'S. I'm a dumb*** when it comes to wiring.:-\ Tony~ I need to know what wire harness you are using for this mod. For what year and model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarpachy Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 ok so we have the starter wire from the ecu (red/yellow stripe) going to start postion wire on car, a black with white stripe. and we have the ignition wire from main relay (green) going to on 12v+ position (black ) wire on car. both these are spliced in right at ignition connector at column. do i have these incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Sorry for the delay here, I have been looking at my data. I wouldn't worry about the starter circuit since I assume the engine is cranking ok. If I remember correctly I think you were not seeing voltage to the coils. You should have 12 volts on the yellow/red wire going to the coil with the ignition ON. Do you have that? If not then you need to check the ignition relay where it comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksock Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 yes I know that i have no power at the coil, checked it with a 12v tester. I will trace it back then report back ok. Cougar when my buddy gets out here I'll give you a call ok?? Tony~ Sorry for the delay here, I have been looking at my data. I wouldn't worry about the starter circuit since I assume the engine is cranking ok. If I remember correctly I think you were not seeing voltage to the coils. You should have 12 volts on the yellow/red wire going to the coil with the ignition ON. Do you have that? If not then you need to check the ignition relay where it comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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