Gene J Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 My daughter called today and could not get the car out of gear. The shifter would not move. Then she could not get it in gear because of all the grinding. Obviously the clutch did not fully disengage. What should I look for for??? The clutch has slowly engaged closer to the floor over time. It only has about 25,000 miles on it. Ideas?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towel Rail Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Has it been periodically adjusted? When I bought my car, it drove fine for the most part, but had no clutch pedal freeplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 How do you adjust a hydraulic clutch?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstalker Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 leaking clutch fluid will do that....or a bad master or slave cylinder. if it's only got 25,000 miles on it, take it back to the dealer (unless you were talking about the clutch only has 25k on it...) ~Erik~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Yeah, check the hydraulic fluid in the clutch reservoir. I've had that happen on one of my cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 Update. If found the car with the clutch pedal on the floor. I can pull it up with my foot . No effort to push it down. The MC is full. Is the likely culprit the slave or MC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Update. If found the car with the clutch pedal on the floor. I can pull it up with my foot . No effort to push it down. The MC is full. Is the likely culprit the slave or MC? Could be both. Generally since they both see the same conditions, both should be replaced at the same time to be done with it. Just have someone push down on the pedal and look at the slave cylinder. If it moves the clutch fork is to blame, if it doesnt its the hydraulics. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 OK I can see the slave cylinder move and I can hear squeaking in the bell housing. But the clutch pedal does not come up on its own. Still think it is the clutch fork? Is the clutch fork tough to replace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Sounds like something is screwy inside the slutch - could be the fork - could be the release bearing froze and wore through the pressure plate.... etc. Have to pull the engine or tranny to see. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 The pressure plate pushes against the slave cylinder, which in turn pushes the master cylinder, and pushes up the clutch pedal. It sounds like the master cylinder is the problem, but i would still replace the two cylinders. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Gene, one question: can you pull the arm that the slave pushes against away from the slave by any significant distance (more than 1/4")? If you can move the fork (the item I just asked about) easily, the problem is likely inside the bell housing. Oh, and what year aned model are the car? And miles on the car would also be good. This will give us a better picture to work from. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Gene, one question: can you pull the arm that the slave pushes against away from the slave by any significant distance (more than 1/4")? If you can move the fork (the item I just asked about) easily, the problem is likely inside the bell housing. Oh, and what year aned model are the car? And miles on the car would also be good. This will give us a better picture to work from. . .98 GT Legacy wagon. Only 105,000 miles. With the slave cylinder plunger fully extended I can wiggle the clutch release lever about a 1/2 inch. It appears that the clutch is not pushing back on the plunger. The clutch is fairly recent with about 25,000 miles on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 98 GT Legacy wagon. Only 105,000 miles. With the slave cylinder plunger fully extended I can wiggle the clutch release lever about a 1/2 inch. It appears that the clutch is not pushing back on the plunger. The clutch is fairly recent with about 25,000 miles on it. So whats happening, you depress the clutch, the slave extends against the clutch fork. The clutch fork moves with the cylinder. If that is true, then the clutch should be disengaging to some degree. Have somone stand on the clutch pedal, and watch what happens at the fork. Does the fork move back to its engaged postion (IE master not holding pressure). Another possability is that the clips that hold on the throw out bearing are broken (especially if they were reused). nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 The salve and master should last about 100,000 miles or several years. My 99 has already required both. The clutch pedal often sticks to the floor when either are shot. Chnge both and you are good for another several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 So whats happening, you depress the clutch, the slave extends against the clutch fork. The clutch fork moves with the cylinder. If that is true, then the clutch should be disengaging to some degree. Have somone stand on the clutch pedal, and watch what happens at the fork. Does the fork move back to its engaged postion (IE master not holding pressure). Another possability is that the clips that hold on the throw out bearing are broken (especially if they were reused). nipper When we push the clutch pedal the arm does move a bit. Maybe 3/4 of an inch. I can pull out the shaft of the slave cylinder to the end end of its travel and wiggle the throwout arm about a half inch. It looks like the hydraulics are working. But there is so much slop that the pedal sticks to the floor. For a few weeks the clutch was engaging close to the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Actually your hydraulics are not working. You should be able to have no ability to move it froward by hand. Start by bleeding it and that might get you by temporaily, but it's not a real fix. I have only seen maybe 50 of these that acted the same way, best to bite the bullet and change the hydraulics. Check the hose to as there was a TSB on some of them for hose and slave, I changed them but it was not cured on mine util I did the master. Anythime your clutch starts on its way to the floor with hydruaulcis it is time to at least bleed the system. Then it gets to the point where you can pull it up with your foot and that's when you had best do domething unless you like driving without a clutch release. Been there and done that, hard to throw the toll when you don't want to stop and they yell at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 So even with the push rod pulled all of the way out, there should still be play on the clutch release shaft??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 No Gene, the hydraulics should move forward when there is play and take it up. We can write about this forever but nothing is going to change. You may get by for a bit by bleeding and you may not. If it was my kid's car I'd change the hydraulics regardless because they have hit the sell by date. Fact hydraulic clutches are easy to operate and build. Fact. For durability they suck. Give me a mechanical linkage any day and I'll just push harder and save $200 every few years. My leg will be stronger too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 No Gene, the hydraulics should move forward when there is play and take it up.We can write about this forever but nothing is going to change. You may get by for a bit by bleeding and you may not. If it was my kid's car I'd change the hydraulics regardless because they have hit the sell by date. Fact hydraulic clutches are easy to operate and build. Fact. For durability they suck. Give me a mechanical linkage any day and I'll just push harder and save $200 every few years. My leg will be stronger too. Well I am not trying to be disrespectful. I am just trying to understand this. I have had diaphragm clutches in Chevys go over center to the point they would not release. That is why I was wondering how there could be space between the fully released slave (pulled all of the way out) and the clutch fork. There is a lot of space there. I would think the clutch would push against the plunger and offer some resistance. It does not. It does push the fork about 3/4 of an inch. This may not be enough. But heck I can replace the hydraulics next weekend. It does not look difficult, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 OK. The verdict is in. The slave cylinder was not so good. It made a big difference when I put the new one on as all of the slack was gone. The fork was solidly against the plunger. I then replaced the master cylinder and got all of the air out. A nice solid feel again!! Too bad the clutch still does not disengage! Oh well. It was good bonding time with the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'm sorry to hear that but your time was not wasted. This is something that needs to be done every several years and now you have done that part. If the slave is doing full travel it must be internal then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Sounds like you may have a broken throw out bearing in addition to the slave issue. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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