SOS New engine? Long story...

[terryb52]

OK, I bought a '98 Legacy Outback from out of state. My brother-in-law has one and saw this one and thought it was a good deal. I have a '92 turbo touring wagon presently that needs some work and have been looking at other cars. Since I am in CO and he is in IL I left it up to him to look it over. He said the engine was "noisy" but it seemed OK. It was an auction car so we didn't know history. I got it for $2000. He tooki it to the Sube dealership in Dubuque to have a safety check and minor repairs. They said it was good to go.

 

I then contacted previous owner found on title. he said the ford dealership had told him he needed a new enging when he went in for an oil change. He got paranoid and sold it to them for $200. They didn't tell him what was wrong, or what they suspected was wrong. I took that as a possible mistake and figured it was probably not a big deal as the Subaru dealer saw nothing wrong. My family braved the terrible weather last weekend and drove it and another car out here across the plains in the ice storms and snow. It made the 1200 mile trip.

 

I thought it was overly noisy myself and had a couple other people listen to it. Both said rods. NOW, what do I do? Anyone been through this with either rebuild or replace? How do I go about it? The one person who diagnosed it is a car dealer who has been through this with Subes and he knows of an outlet for Japanese engines if I know of a mechanic to drop it in. Pros and cons??? Junk yard engine??? Anyone know of someone reliable in Colorado Springs to do the work? I am pretty desperate at this point. I still have my '92 but it is dripping a lot of oil on the manifold and smoking up a storm. Once I get plates and pay tax I will have about $2500 in the '98. What should I expect to pay for engine and labor?

 

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU-- YOU'RE GREAT!

[johnceggleston]

i bought a 97 OBW, 98K miles, with engine noise (diagnoised as a bad wrist pin by a non-subaru dealer). i bought it because i had a 2.2L engine from a donor car just sitting. i paid 2200$ for the 97 fully expecting to swap in the ej22 (approx labor 500 - 700$).

 

mine turned out to be piston slap which is not deadly. 22k miles later and i'm still driving with the noise. search and read up on piston slap, you might get lucky. by the way, most piston slap is worst at start up and goes away as the engine warms up, mine never goes away completely, it does get quieter, but never goes away. i think the headgaskets mmay get me befroe the piston slap. but the only way to find out is to drive it.

 

this might help:

 

http://remanufactured-engines.com/page4.htm

[idosubaru]

the only rebuild option is a CCR engine in my oppinion. they are located in Denver, CO. new rebuilt, Subaru only specialists with a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty i believe.

 

otherwise go used. the best used option in my oppinion is to do an EJ22 swap, swap in a 2.2 liter engine. 2.5's are really expensive (because the demand for them is high due to head gasket issues). they go for about $1,000 used. that's a ton of money to pay for an engine that has known head gasket issues, no way i'd pay that kind of money. 2.2's can be had super cheap ($200 isn't that hard to find around here). and they will drop right in, plug right in, wiring is identical, etc. a few tips for that job and which year EJ22 to get, but that is all on this website. that is your cheapest and most reliable option.

[nipper]

NO Jap engines unless you know what your doing.

 

Go to CCR or find a used engine to swap in.

 

You have rod knock, I suspect its not piston slap, as rod knock may sound fine on a cold engine, then once it warms up it gets louder. Piston slap is the reverse. It is rebuildable, But much more easier to get a used engine and put it in, or a rebuilt engine from CCR.

 

nipper

[terryb52]

I just got 3 quotes on a used 2.5 swap-- $3000-3700! Yikes. I will research the 2.2 engines on this site. I am a complete novice and would appreciate any help. I take care of my cars and expect others to do the same, but it doesn't work that way. I want my cars to last me at least 10 years and only buy used (can't afford anything else). $3000 would be almost a quarter of my yearly wage!

 

Any ideas on selling this car as is-- what to expect moneywise?

[johnceggleston]

I just got 3 quotes on a used 2.5 swap-- $3000-3700! Yikes. I will research the 2.2 engines on this site. I am a complete novice and would appreciate any help. I take care of my cars and expect others to do the same, but it doesn't work that way. I want my cars to last me at least 10 years and only buy used (can't afford anything else). $3000 would be almost a quarter of my yearly wage!

 

Any ideas on selling this car as is-- what to expect moneywise?

look here:

 

www.car-part.com for engines, sort by distance .95 - 98 2.2L engines will fit, some easier than others. the 98 2.2L will be the easiest.

[terryb52]

Can't find CCR on web. Also, where is best way to find out how to do a swap with ej22? Not sure how to search this site and get info to mechanic if necessary. Am going to take it to a different mechanic tomorrow am who works exclusively on Japanese cars. Says there is a tensioner something that often sounds like rod problem. Any ideas on that? I really hope it is more minor than I think. It does not get quieter when warm...

[idosubaru]

CCR - http://www.ccrengines.com/

they will be more than the used engine installation you quoted.

 

do NOT get a used 2.5, that would a terribly stupid decision, sorry to say that but it is the truth.

 

see the search button up there....in the gray bar is a search funtion. practice using it, go to the advanced function too. select "New Generation" forum to help narrow it down. type in combinations of the words "swap EJ22 EJ25" etc. and you will find information on the EJ22 swap, it's a VERY popular topic. while yo'ure playing with the search function type in "head gasket" or "headgasket" and see how many EJ25 problems come up...or just do it in google/yahoo, that is why i say buying a used EJ25 is stupid. it really is...unless it's super cheap and you're installing it yourself, that's the only time it "could" be worth it and that's only if yo'ure time isn't very valuable.

 

the thread above should have said "the 1995 EJ22 is the easiest EJ22 to swap" not a 1998.

 

all you need is a 1995-1998 EJ22 (with intake manifold).

if it's a 1995 you'll want one from an automatic (has to have EGR)

if it's a 1996-1998 you will want the exhaust headers with it.

you will swap a/c and power steering stuff from you old engine onto this engine...it all swaps over very easily.

 

after that it's drop in, bolt up and plug in. it's that easy.

 

1995-1996 EJ22's are NONINTERFERENCE. you might like that, if the timing belt breaks it does not ruin the engine. if the timing belt breaks on a 1997 or 1998 EJ22 then you're looking at basically what you're looking at right now...major engine damage. in your situation a 1995-1996 would be a good bet cost wise. a 97-98 really should have all the timing pulleys replaced now ot make sure the belt doesn't break...and that's a lot of additional cost that you may not want right now. i always replace them anyway, but if you want to keep costs down the 95-96 is easier to do that on.

[idosubaru]

also forgot to mention just below where you enter the key words for the "advanced search" is "search entire thread" or "search titles only".....start with "search titles only to be more specific. here's a link to a search in the New Gen forum searching titles only with "EJ22 swap":

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/search.php?searchid=506060

[john in KY]

Don't know what your problem is but I'd rule out a knocking rod. 1200 miles with a rod knock? Never happen.

[nipper]

Don't know what your problem is but I'd rule out a knocking rod. 1200 miles with a rod knock? Never happen.

 

Hate to tell you this, but i went 1400 miles on a rod knock ( a mysterious one that roamed) before it ended in a rather spectacular moment, so never say never

 

 

nipper

[DrKrazy]

I've got to ask, is it an automatic transmission?

Could also be a cracked flex plate causing it..seen it many times. Brother had 6 stacked on top of each other at his shop for awhile...

[nipper]

I've got to ask, is it an automatic transmission?

Could also be a cracked flex plate causing it..seen it many times. Brother had 6 stacked on top of each other at his shop for awhile...

 

Forgot about that one, usually i am the one to mention it

 

But the poor running has me leaning towards a bad valve.

 

nipper

[terryb52]

I think you're right! I just took it to a shop and they think it's a tensioner rod-- estimate to put in new one PLUS pulleys, timing belt, water pump, seals, etc. under $1000. That is music to my ears. Anyone have opinions on this? Yes it is an AT and I'll ask about that as well. No one has dug into the engine yet so anything might be possible.

[idosubaru]

get it replaced soon...broken timing stuff is bad.

 

$1,000 is steep, might want to shop around if you want to save a few hundred. that's not abnormal for dealer pricing though. if it's a place you trust and like then go for it, if you don't really know then you may want to get another quote from elsewhere.

[brus brother]

Don't mean to be glib but, the car drives... drive it. It is noisy... turn up the radio.

My cousin's 98 OB has the wrist pin/piston slap noise and has been driving it for over 70,000 miles since it first developed.

He just told his inquisitive neighbors that he is driving a diesel.

I have heard it and it sounds like a bucket of bolts when first started but then quiets down after a while.

Not what you wanted in your new/used car but it probably will still get you where you want to go.

Edit: just saw the other posts that appeared while I was posting. Will they guarantee the diagnosis? If not, you could end up paying for repair work on an engine that still has the same issue you are concerned about.

I hope you catch a break.

[bheinen74]

put in a $200 2.2 EJ22, don't spend any money fixing that 2.5, and don't get another 2.5 THE 2.5 are all garbage, unless you wnat to run into the same scenario every 3 years.

[idosubaru]

Don't mean to be glib but, the car drives... drive it. It is noisy... turn up the radio.

My cousin's 98 OB has the wrist pin/piston slap noise

he's talking about the timing tensioner rod, nothing internal. an easy fix...but still expensive. i agree it would suck major back side to spend $1,000 now only to find out in 6 months you have a $1,500 head gasket job needed to, but you certainly wouldn't trash a good engine for a $100 noisey tensioner.

[terryb52]

I got 2 quotes for the work and both were over $900-- neither a dealership. It is expensive to fix cars in CO. Last timing belt situation was about the same. I have an appt. fopr next Tue to do the work. I will bring up all the possibilities you guys described. I will hope for the best.

[brus brother]

I got 2 quotes for the work and both were over $900-- neither a dealership. It is expensive to fix cars in CO. Last timing belt situation was about the same. I have an appt. fopr next Tue to do the work. I will bring up all the possibilities you guys described. I will hope for the best.

While you did get 2 quotes for the work, I am curious if both shops diagnose the problem as being the tensioner.

I hope you catch a break.

[Suzam]

While you did get 2 quotes for the work, I am curious if both shops diagnose the problem as being the tensioner.

I hope you catch a break.

This is a good question! If you go into a shop asking how much to replace a part, they maybe quoting on what you are asking them to do without a diagnosis.

[terryb52]

I only took it to one shop. I will be asking about wrist pins, etc. when I take it to the shop where I will get the work done (a different shop). I'm sure they will have to get into it to see for sure. What questions should I ask or what should I look out for when I take it in? I don't want to get taken, being a woman and all. I try to be pretty savvy.

[idosubaru]

well your previous diagnosis you reported was that it was a the timing belt tensioner. this has happened before and is a possibility, so i suppose they need to verify that this is the problem. if that is the case - this is not major internal engine problems. not sure what you're asking, but i can't think of anything else that could help you besides going and listening to it to determine what the noise is. anyone familiar with subarus, including many on this board, would not have a problem determining what this sound is i don't believe. not if it's that loud and noticeable as a "rod knock".

 

good luck!