211 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 This car has been extremely rock-solid and suddenly this morning it wouldn't start. Typical low battery symptoms; dash lights dim while trying to start, no engine crank, etc. So I cleaned the battery terminals, re connected the leads, still nothing. Jumped the car w/ wife's car and of course it started. Noticed though that every time I step on the brake the headlights blink (probably a drop in voltage due to the brake lights coming on). Thought the drive to work would be plenty to charge the battery but several times I had to play the heel-toe game trying to keep the engine idling otherwise it would die. Pulled into work and the car wont start still...The battery is OE i'm sure (2k OBW) but I've never had any issues w/ starting or anything, and all battery failures I've experienced have been progressive never sudden like this. I guess I'm asking if anyone agrees that its the battery and not the alternator, or something worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If you get the car running and have a volt meter, measure the voltage across the battery. If you get something close to 14 Volts DC, then the alternator is working and you have a bad battery. If you don't get 14 volts, then the alternator is shot. I've had more issues with batteries going bad than alternators in newer subarus. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 "I guess I'm asking if anyone agrees that its the battery and not the alternator, or something worse." I for one do not agree. The battery may be toast now but your description leads me to think that half the output diodes in the alt are toast. Thus with the headlights and no doubt heater fan on, the alt can not make enough juice to support the load and recharge the bat. Have the alt output tested and make sure the cables other ends connections are clean. Whats a 2KOBW ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
211 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 "I guess I'm asking if anyone agrees that its the battery and not the alternator, or something worse." I for one do not agree. The battery may be toast now but your description leads me to think that half the output diodes in the alt are toast. Thus with the headlights and no doubt heater fan on, the alt can not make enough juice to support the load and recharge the bat. Have the alt output tested and make sure the cables other ends connections are clean. Whats a 2KOBW ?? 2000 Outback WagonI really hope the alternators not toast- those things are like $300.00Oh, also a couple weeks ago I took the car into the local oil service joint (Jiffy Lube type place), they did the usual oil change and multi-point inspection, the guy said they added water to the battery because it was low. Not sure if that could be related but it's the only thing that's ever happend to the battery recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Well used alt are not that expensive nor are rebuilts. The "needing water" could have been caused by the alternators internal voltage regulator going haywire. This can cause an over charging situation which boils the H20. After time the overcharging causes the diodes to go bad. Best to get the alt checked before throwing parts at it. You could have warped plates in the battery now also. This condition shorts out cells and well ...battery time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
211 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 Problem is now, the car wont start so I'll have to get a jump here at work and then it's a one-way trip to the parts store. I'd need to get another jump once I'm at the store for them to test the alternator as pulling it out is not an option at this point. BTW what's up w/ the edit function? It's all wacky and html lookin and half the time it wont save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 It sounds like the winter blues has stuck another vehicle. If the battery in the car is the original one then you are due for a new one. Even if it has been replaced it sounds like you are going to need a new one. I suggest you take it to a shop that can load test the system while the alternator is in place and see what they say. Check the main output lead of the alternator to the battery and make sure there isn't a bad connection there. Since the battery fluid level was low this very well could mean some of the alternator output diodes have shorted and AC voltage is getting to the battery, as Skip stated. This would be very bad and could cause the fluid to boil off along with damaging the battery. If you have a voltmeter handy you could see if you measure any AC voltage across the battery, with the engine running. Just as I guess I suspect you are going to need to replace both the alternator and the battery. Hopefully I'm wrong though and you won't need both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 since the battery is old and no doubt needs replaced have some one get you a new battery on their lunch break instal it and drive to the test place. the tools for this should be in the Subaru kit?? if you had AAA they will bring you and install a bat. sorry can't help with the edit problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 A parts store like Auto Zone or Advance will take their testing equipment out to their parking lot to test your battery and alternator function, while the battery and alternator are still in the car. No need to wrench out anything to carry inside the store for testing. Part store rebuilt alternators are not the best, but cost about $120, not like $300 when new from dealer. The rebuilt will come with a life time warranty, and since it is not difficult changing an alternator yourself, it is the route that I have taken. Take some tools with you if it turns out to be a bad battery. Many a time, I have swapped out bad batteries in the parking lot of the parts store. Only should take about 10 minutes to complete the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 another sugg have Santa bring you an early Xmas gift....... a jump box!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
211 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 I'm still concerned with the "sudden" death. The car, since forever, has started just fine- then all of a sudden boom, like someone left the lights on overnight. Even then dying batteries have always been symptomatic, hard starts, needs an occasional overnight deep-cycle charge, until finally it just dies. I've never had one just quit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
211 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 another sugg have Santa bring you an early Xmas gift....... a jump box!! Sadly I think Santa will already be getting me a battery for x-mas. Quite possibly an alternator also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 A battery can just run down suddenly at times. The cold outside temps don't help either. How old is the battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If the battery is in fact the OE battery, and is now going on 8 years old............the sudden death is not a suppries. That kind of service from any wet cell battery is about all you can expect. Time for a battery. You will need a good battery with a full charge to properly test the alternator anyway. I see very few alternators on '00 and newer cars fail. But the more you drive the car with the alternator trying to keep up with powering the electrical system and charge a bad battery, the higher the risk of frying the alternator if it isn't bad already. It is the batteries job to power the electrical system, all the alternator is designed to do is maintain the batteries charge. Yes, the alternator can do more, but was not intended to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If it is the alt, check the online OED suppliers. I think they have the alt a lot cheaper then off the street. The 300.00 one is for the imprezza. I am not home so i dont have the links otherwise i would check for you. Even if they dealer is high, try to get it from the dealer, as they last longer then the rebuilt aftermarket ones. At almost 7 years old, your due for a battery. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 What about that alternator recall? I don't think it lasted up to the '00 but maybe...anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 What about that alternator recall? I don't think it lasted up to the '00 but maybe...anybody? http://www.nhtsa.gov will have the recall, as well as http://www.cars101.com nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
211 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Thanks for all the input ya'll (as usual). Bought a new battery during lunch at work. Car started fine but just for S&G's I stopped off at Schucks to have them test the alt. The reader came back "Excessive ripple detected". So it seems as though the internal voltage regulator is failing and I'll need a new alternator. So WTF??? 2000 OBW w/ 87,000 miles chews through it's first alternator!?! Also, what's the consensus on the store-bought alternators (reman'd I imagine). It's comes with a lifetime warranty so I'm not concerned about a dealership OE alternator lasting longer cause I'll just take the one back if it fails in a couple years- yaknow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 a bad battery can kill an altenator 197.00 eeek at https://www.1stsubaruparts.com/partscat.html what is the cost difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I know on an old VW I had I could purchase a voltage regulator. Anyway to buy a voltage regulator only. On the old dub I had it was held in by 2 screws, super easy to replace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I know on an old VW I had I could purchase a voltage regulator. Anyway to buy a voltage regulator only. On the old dub I had it was held in by 2 screws, super easy to replace If you think the alt is expensive, you should price the individual parts. You really cant (well you can) just replace the regulator, but at that point you should do the brushes too. The days of external voltage regulators are long gone. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Also, what's the consensus on the store-bought alternators (reman'd I imagine). It's comes with a lifetime warranty so I'm not concerned about a dealership OE alternator lasting longer cause I'll just take the one back if it fails in a couple years- yaknow? Make darn sure you keep your reciept for the alt in your glovebox - tuck it into the owners manual or someplace similar, cause if it ever quits, and you cant prove you bought it and when, you will have to buy another one. As a side note to that - perhaps make a photocopy of the reciept and keep that in a safe place as well. Have had Advance Auto reciepts fade away to pretty much nothing on me - especially if they get exposed to light frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Make darn sure you keep your reciept for the alt in your glovebox - tuck it into the owners manual or someplace similar, cause if it ever quits, and you cant prove you bought it and when, you will have to buy another one. As a side note to that - perhaps make a photocopy of the reciept and keep that in a safe place as well. Have had Advance Auto reciepts fade away to pretty much nothing on me - especially if they get exposed to light frequently. Agree that receipts from Advance and AZ have quick fading ink if exposed to sun light. Maybe that is how they get out of honoring life time guarantees by using invisible ink. I have manilla file folders for each of my cars. I buy something for a car, the receipt goes into that car's folder, and then the folder is kept in a filing cabinet in my home office. That way it is easy for me to see when I did brakes on a car, or any other work over the years. Just my 2 cents worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 A parts store like Auto Zone or Advance will take their testing equipment out to their parking lot to test your battery and alternator function, while the battery and alternator are still in the car. No need to wrench out anything to carry inside the store for testing. Part store rebuilt alternators are not the best, but cost about $120, not like $300 when new from dealer. The rebuilt will come with a life time warranty, and since it is not difficult changing an alternator yourself, it is the route that I have taken. Take some tools with you if it turns out to be a bad battery. Many a time, I have swapped out bad batteries in the parking lot of the parts store. Only should take about 10 minutes to complete the job. Not to mention on bench testing of an alt is useless unles you are rebuilding it. The god old silver box analog battery tester is the best. The digital ones miss failed altenators quite a lot. they may be good but people rely on them too much or dont know how to use them properly nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
211 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Ordered an alt. from Schucks today, it'll be in by the time I get off work. $155.00 with the core deposit.No one ever responded to the "Why did it fail after on 84,000 miles..." question. I'm sure it was a chicken/egg thing. If the battery failed I suppose it could over drive the alternator and burn it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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