EVOthis Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Just had a quick question i wanted to put out there.....i had a guy tell me today that the subaru 5 spd. trans has gone virtually "unchanged" for like 20 years...is this true?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Just had a quick question i wanted to put out there.....i had a guy tell me today that the subaru 5 spd. trans has gone virtually "unchanged" for like 20 years...is this true?.... you have to define "virtually unchanged". that's a completely ambiguous un-answerable statement that only depends on the interpretation of the reader. on a part by part basis or on a conceptual basis? basically - no. there is more than one subaru 5 speed and they are both very, very, very different animals. EJ 5 speeds suck for off road - they don't have the differential locking of the old school EA/ER series 5 speeds. so that's a rather significant difference. the bell housings are different and not interchangeable. the speed sensors are not cable driven any more...they have a hydraulic clutch as of the mid to late 90's verses the old school cable clutch. and they have a viscous center that the old ones never had. but.....there are some interchangeable parts as well. it's really a circular discussion (as you are about to find out by all the replies). so yeah - define "virtually unchanged". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Ok Ok good point....All the EJ series engines over the years......has the subaru 5 spd manual transmission gone unchanged.....by this i really mean gear ratio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I wouldve asked: Have the clever boffins at Subaru ever sat down and designed a new 5 speed box? Or are they still working from the plans made in the 80's when the EJ series was first introduced? Have there been any significant changes in the design or is it essentially the same box now as it was 18 years ago? (forgetting hydraulic clutch and LSD arrangements as thats more of an upgrade than a new design) And while were at it - why the hell are Subarus still 4speed autos?!?! Drove a volvo 6speed v8 the other day and it shifted beautifully. My biggest hate for autos is not having enough gears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I wouldve asked: Have the clever boffins at Subaru ever sat down and designed a new 5 speed box? Or are they still working from the plans made in the 80's when the EJ series was first introduced? Have there been any significant changes in the design or is it essentially the same box now as it was 18 years ago? (forgetting hydraulic clutch and LSD arrangements as thats more of an upgrade than a new design) And while were at it - why the hell are Subarus still 4speed autos?!?! Drove a volvo 6speed v8 the other day and it shifted beautifully. My biggest hate for autos is not having enough gears You keep forgetting, subaru is a SMALL automotive company. R and D costs millions of dollars, hence why GM had to partner with ford and chrysler to come up with a new tranny. Volvo had the deep pockets of its parent company (whoever that is now) to develop a tranny. Not knowing much about volvo right now, they may even had a supplier develop it for them. Subaru is a unique transmission by any measure. They cant really partner with anyone to devlop a new tranny. Its not like the middle will be the same, and everyone add on thier own tail shaft and bell housing. Also with a limited prodyct line, if they did devlop one (and its really not proven yet that a 6 speed is worth it with a 4 cylinder engine), there could be a hefty price increase. You can not compare a v-8 drivetrain with a 4cyl drivetrain, they have different power bands. Its like comparing apples and cell phones. I don't fault them for not doing it. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The new sportshift 5eat is actually pretty decent. It only goes in the Legacy based cars though and the new WRX still gets a 4-speed auto. Those still suck. At least the old ones have the manual button that keeps the transmission from kicking down when you don't want it to. As far as the manual 5-speed goes, no, not much has changed since 1990. The design is the same but the gears got a little wider and stronger and the ribbing on the case was changed to make it stronger at some point. The center diff was changed slightly in around 99 as well. There is a lot of info over on nasioc: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=986710 more stuff here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187454 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The only reason it irritates me so is because im sure they couldve built a new auto with the R&D budget they blew on the Baja. I mean these guys are bloody brilliant - they stuck pen to paper and made a new 6cylinder, (cue EZ series). They still have one of the worlds best AWD systems (the volvos haldex one sucked!). Good crash ratings, the fuel economy is getting better, reasonably reliable vehicles that are stylish, practical and affordable. But when the rest of the world is building 6speed tiptronics, with more electrical goodies than you can shake a stick at, were driving 20 year old technology. Fuji may be a small company but they dont even seem to be doing anything new. (Oh and my apologies to the original poster for ranting) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Uh, they did build a new 5-speed auto. I've driven it and was impressed. The Baja consisted of chopping off the back of an outback to make it a ute. Honesty I don't think they spent a lot of money on R&D for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 What vehicles are the 5speeds fitted in? And yeah the Baja was pretty simple but thats kinda my point - other than the Tribeca....not much is new. The outback is really a legacy and the Forester is an Impreza in disguise. Then again, if it aint broke - dont spend millions designing a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The new sportshift 5eat is actually pretty decent. It only goes in the Legacy based cars though Legacy, outback, tribeca. And to me the fact that all the cars are so similar and share a lot of components is great. Keeps costs down and reliability up. This is a thread about the 5MT though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Hmm ill have to take the neighbours Tribeca for a drive... Anyways - thats the end of my thread derailment. (cheers jamal and nipper for indulging my off topic-ness) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 .by this i really mean gear ratio? differential gear ratios (3.9 and 4.11 and maybe a 3.7 in the early 90's??) or actual 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gear ratios (there are variations)? gear ratios aren't something the general public cares about, so they don't change much. if they did that would be odd. there were different ratios available but not huge changes. depends why you're asking/talking about it. if it's for swapping transmissions then the differences may matter. if it isn't, it shouldn't be all that surprising that the transmissions haven't changed much. there are companies that have used the same engines/transmissions for decades in various lines of vehicles, that's nothing new and makes sense....it's done all the time, all over the world in multiple sectors of business. that's Industrial Engineering or what "real" engineers like to call "Imaginary Engineering" (it's easy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Just had a quick question i wanted to put out there.....i had a guy tell me today that the subaru 5 spd. trans has gone virtually "unchanged" for like 20 years...is this true?.... Basically, yes. But really, the development of the Subaru "transaxle" has been one of continous improvement. They have made a lot of changes. The 5 speed was itself an obvious enhancement to the 4 speed 4WD and the 5 speed FWD. They redesigned the 4WD "interface" in order to fit in the extra gear. Really, like most manufacturers, Subaru has taken old designs that proved reliable and functional, and improved along the way. There is very little difference from an 87 RX "Full Time 4WD" 5 speed and an EJ series "All Wheel Drive" 5 speed though. So he was actually more correct than you might think. Other than the bell-housing, and the center diff/viscous coupleing they are hard to tell apart. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Thanks jamal....most informative... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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