Opinion of EA81 converted to SPFI is it worth doing?

[cole098]

Im considering fooling around with my EA81 Wagon and changing it to a SPFI setup from a EA82.. Is it really worth doing ? Will the car have some more pep ???

 

Thanks

[backwoodsboy]

I would only change it if you are "fed up" with your carb setup. (its giving you big problems?)

 

If you are only changing for a power gain, I would say to change to a weber carb, and have done with it.

 

The SPFI works nice.... when it works.

 

EDIT: Too many sensors IMHO

[GeneralDisorder]

The SPFI works nice.... when it works. Too many sensors to swap over IMHO

 

Huh?!?

 

There's exactly ONE sensor and an intake manifold.... how is that "too many"?

 

You should probably take opinions from people who have actually done this mod. Or written about it even!

 

The performace is good. The reliability is amazing, and the driveability is nothing a carb could ever touch.

 

If you have the means, then I highly reccomend you give it a try. It's generally cheaper than a Weber as well.

 

GD

[backwoodsboy]

GD....

 

Dont wanna argue over this, I was just giving my opinion.

 

I shouldve just said "too many sensors" period.

 

You undoubtedly "know youre stuff" more than I do, but I grew up with ea82 SPFI troubles. Ive had my share of TPS problems, therm sensor problems, and O2 sensor problems. Every day there are threads on here with someone (sometimes me) trying to diagnose an SPFI related malady.

 

On paper, the SPFI is far superior without a doubt. In my own experience however, a weber carb is easier to deal with, and more user-friendly. For a FEW less HP, and maybe 1 mpg less (or so), youve got a reliable system with the weber.

 

How often are there folks on here complaining that their weber-carbed engine wont run right? Call me old school, sorry.

[mountaingoatgruff]

i am in the process of doing an spfi conversion right now. i hesitate to chime in here, but i know i'd want to hear every perspective available.

 

i have an 84 gl hatchback that i bought recently with the impression that it had a reman'd carb and was running great. i never got to hear it cold before i bought it (long distance purchase). turns out the thing has soooo many problems its unreal.

 

i had an 83 gl wagon when i was 19 that i loved and my only complaint was the carb - it ran like crap when that p.o.s. hitachi wasn't in a good mood.

 

while asking around about my carb, GD suggested i do an spfi conversion. after looking into it i realized it wouldn't cost me much more that to practically replace my whole carb setup and it's fried systems, my ea81 dist was bad, and i realized after getting in there that my intake gaskets were bad, too. i read GD's writeup, thought it'd be doable and took the plunge.

 

with all due respect to GD and the utmost of gratitude for his help, i must say - there's a couple of things i've had to learn and do that aren't even mentioned in his writeup.

 

when you prep the wiring harness, there's more to it than GD wrote. i didn't pull the harness myself so that was most likely my biggest roadblock. also for a guy that knows auto electrical, maybe those things are more apparent but this is my first auto electric project close to this scale. i don't remember off the top of my head what it was but my advice would be that before cutting anything you need to take the time to fully understand what each part of the harness is before the surgery how it should be after - that was 10 hours of referencing, reading, etc. for me. i spent a total of 14 hours on the harness alone!

 

there's no spot for a cc clutch switch in my car - no way, no how. i had to convert to the ea82 clutch pedal and cable (which included grinding off the welded ea81 cable mount and reinforcing the bracket after that), fab up a mounting bracket for the switch (i used a piece of al angle stock), and then relocate my wiper relay to make space for it all. i didn't mind cuz i plan on doing the 5speed swap down the road and i'll use the ea82 cable, but you'd have to be down to do all that if your setup is like mine was.

 

then there's the inevitable unexpected, mostly waiting for parts and running into things you need to research. i found a horribly stripped exhaust stud (which i have yet to fix), a bird's nest of wiring under my dash, broken/defective parts here and there, and i can't remember how many times i've gone to the parts store in the last month.

 

i've been at it over a month now, but i've also spent lots of time fabbing up a new fuel pump shelf, dist hold down plate, and the clutch switch mount. all i really have left is to install my modified clutch assembly, the harness (including splicing, lengthening, etc.), and plumb my fuel lines.

 

i don't want to discourage you because i believe that aside from other factors in my life right now this conversion will prove worth every hour spent on it. i hope to be done in the next few weeks (waiting on parts and help with soldering. i've never done it and i want to know its done proper and learn firsthand from someone with experience). i'll update you when its running if you're still interested.

[hatchsub]

GD....

 

Dont wanna argue over this, I was just giving my opinion.

 

I shouldve just said "too many sensors" period.

 

You undoubtedly "know youre stuff" more than I do, but I grew up with ea82 SPFI troubles. Ive had my share of TPS problems, therm sensor problems, and O2 sensor problems. Every day there are threads on here with someone (sometimes me) trying to diagnose an SPFI related malady.

 

On paper, the SPFI is far superior without a doubt. In my own experience however, a weber carb is easier to deal with, and more user-friendly. For a FEW less HP, and maybe 1 mpg less (or so), youve got a reliable system with the weber.

 

How often are there folks on here complaining that their weber-carbed engine wont run right? Call me old school, sorry.

 

Im not going to take sides but I will offer my opinion on the Weber Vs SPFI topic. I have a weber and it took me awhile to finally get it tuned well but i can honestly say the car is not the same with a weber. It is much more reliable than with the hitachi. The low end torque is better as well. Ive read on her that the low end torque is slightly better with a weber than with SPFI but the big advantage of SPFI is that no cold start carb problems. The weber is easier and you get about the same gas milage if not a hair less than with SPFI. But...SPFI is the way to go if you want a more modern running car. Its all up to you. SPFI is cheaper and more modern but the weber is slightly simpler. Both are good. Ive thought a bit about SPFI but am not interested in the amount of wiring involved.

[Gloyale]

How often are there folks on here complaining that their weber-carbed engine wont run right? Call me old school, sorry.

 

Proportionally alot more than SPFI issues.

 

Lets See, millions of SPFI produced. Yes we see thread about it, but a samll percent of those millions. And there is ton of diagnostci info out there that makes most problem easy to solve.

 

Webbers.......perhaps 10,000 people have converted to them(big overestimate I think) But yet we see threads about weber problems frequently too. A much higher Fuel system to Problem post ratio

[backwoodsboy]

 

Dont wanna argue over this, I was just giving my opinion.

 

I am bowing out.

[hatchsub]

Im going to build on what i said earlier and say that I dont think its fair to compare a Weber to SPFI. Its like comparing apples and oranges. Both have there drawbacks and advantages. Some people like webers and some like SPFI. lets leave it at that before this turns into a ************ throwing contest.

[s'ko]

Im considering fooling around with my EA81 Wagon and changing it to a SPFI setup from a EA82.. Is it really worth doing ? Will the car have some more pep ???

 

Thanks

 

PM supernova. He's completed it recently.

 

If I still had my EA81 in the BRAT I wouldn't hesitate on doing this.

 

(sits down in his lazyboy)

The biggest thing that you need to wrap your brain around is the wiring. This is the most intimidating part of any engine swap. Read up on what needs to be done, (GD's write up is a great resource) PM people who have done it. PM people who have done a weber swap and then make up your mind. As a whole I think the SPFI swap is cheaper and easier to come by b/c you can get the parts from a jukyard.

 

From what I have read the weber takes time to tune and the SPFI takes time to prep the harness. Which do you feel more comfortable with?

 

Good luck.

 

BW

[hatchsub]

From what I have read the weber takes time to tune and the SPFI takes time to prep the harness. Which do you feel more comfortable with?

 

BW

 

That pretty much summed it up.

[mountaingoatgruff]

lets see if i can state my opinion about the whole spfi vs weber thing without stepping on toes...

 

i didn't even consider a weber primarily because of ca laws. i'm more likely to be able to sneak oem subaru spfi parts past a smog tech than a shiny weber with it's obvious lack of emissions equipment that would stick out like a sore thumb under my hood. everybody knows most 80's japanese cars are stuffed to the gills with vacuum and emissions crap, especially smog techs. almost all of you guys are fortunate enough that you don't have to worry about that though.

 

second, there's the diagnostics point GD made. information is usually more readily available, more clearly defined, and more tried and true for factory setups over mod setups - regardless of the car/mod. that also brings up the fact that spfi is "plug and play" - no trial and error process of tuning (and if tuning these webers is anything like 60's strombergs or holleys, count me out!!)

 

i can see where lots of guys would love the weber setup for the fact that its a sweet carb. my brother and i once changed a perfectly running efi vw over to a dual weber setup just for the novelty of it. ran about the same, probably less reliable - whatever. personally i prefer the look of a clean carb with a chrome filter housing over an intake that's not crowded with junk.

 

i don't mind the extra installation work for spfi cuz my car is a dd, i want the extra bit of mileage and reliability over the novelty.

[GeneralDisorder]

when you prep the wiring harness, there's more to it than GD wrote. i didn't pull the harness myself so that was most likely my biggest roadblock. also for a guy that knows auto electrical, maybe those things are more apparent but this is my first auto electric project close to this scale. i don't remember off the top of my head what it was but my advice would be that before cutting anything you need to take the time to fully understand what each part of the harness is before the surgery how it should be after - that was 10 hours of referencing, reading, etc. for me. i spent a total of 14 hours on the harness alone!.

 

Absolutely! There's a lot to the wireing. And I don't prefess to have the end-all-be-all of write-up's on the subject. I wrote that durring an unemployed phase of my life AFTER I had done two conversions. The wiring portion could be done better, and I intend to improve it when I do the next one as it will be easier for me to take the time to produce pictures and lay things out as I go. I have improved the production of my harnesses each time I have done one as I become more familar with how aspects of the conversion are affected by things done at that first, most critical stage of wiring. The harness preperation is by FAR the biggest roadblock to getting other people to try out SPFI with the EA81. If it were simple, then everyone would have it and no one would be buying Weber's.

 

 

there's no spot for a cc clutch switch in my car - no way, no how. i had to convert to the ea82 clutch pedal and cable.

 

I have to disagree with you and say that I'm 99% certain you just don't understand what the CC switch is, or how it's mounted. To the uninitiated, the CC switch location looks like a stop bolt that contacts a rubber pad on the clutch pedal and stops it's upward motion when you let your foot off the pedal. It IS there - it has to be or the pedal wouldn't stop. This bolt is removed, and the CC switch mount in that location so that it closes each time the pedal is released. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear on this. But it IS there, and had I been more clear you probably wouldn't have had to do all that extra work.

 

then there's the inevitable unexpected, mostly waiting for parts and running into things you need to research. i found a horribly stripped exhaust stud (which i have yet to fix), a bird's nest of wiring under my dash, broken/defective parts here and there, and i can't remember how many times i've gone to the parts store in the last month.

 

Oh yeah - it's definately easier to have a whole donor car at your disposal as I had the first time around. Plus a lot of parts cars in the yards around here.

 

GD

[cole098]

Well I think I need to find a donor car first.. I just hate to part with the old EA81... I like my new EA82 but I still have a attachment to the old car..

 

Joe

[GeneralDisorder]

i didn't even consider a weber primarily because of ca laws. i'm more likely to be able to sneak oem subaru spfi parts past a smog tech than a shiny weber with it's obvious lack of emissions equipment that would stick out like a sore thumb under my hood. everybody knows most 80's japanese cars are stuffed to the gills with vacuum and emissions crap, especially smog techs. almost all of you guys are fortunate enough that you don't have to worry about that though.

 

It's interesting that people keep pointing that out, yet few have realized how simple it is to mod out the stock air cleaner box to fit on top of the Weber. You just buy a $15 Weber DGV air filter with housing from EMPI, and use the bottom plate. You cut out the bottom of the stock kidney-bean filter box and JB weld in the section that bolts down to the Weber.

 

This allows you to hookup basically everything that the Hitachi had, and the few lines that don't directly hookup to the carb can be mocked up to look as though they do. With all of the lines and the actual carb hidden completely under that massive filter box, it remains only to tune it properly - which is fairly straightforward either with some trial & error, or especially with a A/F gauge.

 

The smog morons are only looking for certain things (the ASV's, and the charcoal canistor, etc) to be IN PLACE. They cannot verify that these devices work. Their only actual metric is what comes out the tail-pipe. Passive systems such as the evap. for the tank and float bowl are not testable in any way. They only want to SEE them. As long as they see them there's no need for them to function, or even be actually hooked to anything as long as they "dissapear" under the filter box. They aren't going to take your engine bay apart to verify that you haven't shoved ball bearings in half the lines.....

 

Appearances are everything to the smog nazi - as long as it looks like an 80's subaru, and you look like you don't give a fast flying fardle about anything automotive related.... they aren't going to question it.

 

It helps imensly to understand the various devices employed for emmissions puposes on the stock Hitachi carbs (feedback or non) - once you grasp the technical side of it, it's easy to either adapt the Weber to work with them, or realize they aren't neccesary - even in CA.

 

GD

[Bucky92]

I have been doing some reading up on this swap myself...debating on changing my 83 GL-10 coupe to SPFI..My reason is mainly cause...I am more familiar with the SPFI system then carbs...Now if the coupe was going to be a daily driver I think I would definately do the swap...but its going to be a restoration/show car..Garage queen/king...Maybe driven once a week and not at all during the winter.NO WAY!!!! I would be crazy to ship a car from the rust free lands of WA to the rust belt and allow it to be exposed to the elements.. So would you do this swap?Or leave it a carb..I mean there is some carb issues with it..Rob says it has a Carter on it and the PO did a butchering of the choke...we did discussed just plopping another carb on it. So in this case though..since its not going to be a driver per-say..would you leave it carb?

[mountaingoatgruff]

just cuz i don't want to leave questions in people's minds about the possibility of this extra work, i have to insist again that there is no way that my car could have accepted even the stock ea81 cc switch.

 

i know what the switch looks like, what the stock mount looks like (i looked real closely at your pics, GD) and how it would have been configured. that mount was simply not in my car. btw, the ONLY metal i cut off was the mount for the end of the ea81 clutch cable.

 

i don't know if GD's is bolted to the two nuts attached to the pedal braket or welded, but mine had nothing in the two nuts and nothing attached in any way. it had no stopper on the pedal of any type, i noticed that when i crawled under there to take it all apart and the pedal flopped around.

 

i now have an ea82 clutch pedal mounted to the ea81 bracket on the old pedal rod, an ea82 clutch cable, and a big aluminum bracket to mount my switch. here's a pic from halfway through this process:

 

 

yes, i painted those parts - i'm ocd about rust and filth. my mount is only so big cuz the rubber pad is so far down/out on the ea82 pedal:

 

 

even if those of you considering this conversion have to do this extra work, just think - your clutch pedal/cable assembly is already set up for a 5 speed!:cool:

[mikeshoup]

Is the CC switch even necessary? I don't ever recall the 86-89 SPFIs requiring any sort of neutral switch or what not.

[GeneralDisorder]

just cuz i don't want to leave questions in people's minds about the possibility of this extra work, i have to insist again that there is no way that my car could have accepted even the stock ea81 cc switch.

 

Heh. I see the problem now. I just went and looked in my 83 hatch and the pedal stop is indeed not there. It's just an L shaped bracket that bolts to the pedal assembly (holes are already there), and then you insert the rubber pad into the existing hole in the pedal.

 

So I should have said that you need the CC switch, AND the bracket that bolts it to the pedal assembly IF you have a pre-'83.5 clutch pedal assembly. '83.5+ have a different clutch cable and the pedal assembly comes with a bolt (non-switch) that you replace with the switch style for CC installations. But the older pedal assembly will accept the bracket and the switch along with the rubber stopper pad.

 

It's just like the brake light switch "bolt", but it's on the clutch pedal.

 

Sorry about the further confusion. If my camera weren't broken at the moment I would take pictures to illustrate what I'm talking about.

 

In this pic from my write up, the "L" bracket that the switch is bolted to is simply attached with two bolts to existing holes in the pedal assembly. The holes, and the spot for the rubber pad are present on my 83 hatch, but the bracket is not, nor is the switch.

 

 

All EA81's were equipped for installation of option "dealer" installed cruise control - so all the pedal assemblies should have the provision for it. See my write up on EA81 clutch cable's for the differences in the older and newer style cable, and how it's mounted to the pedal assembly:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/clutch.html

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

Is the CC switch even necessary? I don't ever recall the 86-89 SPFIs requiring any sort of neutral switch or what not.

 

Yes - all SPFI's had a neutral switch. It's the 90+ that ALSO have a clutch switch.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

So would you do this swap?Or leave it a carb..I mean there is some carb issues with it..Rob says it has a Carter on it and the PO did a butchering of the choke...we did discussed just plopping another carb on it. So in this case though..since its not going to be a driver per-say..would you leave it carb?

 

I would definitely install the SPFI. The Carter/Weber is a notoriously difficult carb. The Hitachi's were actually better if you can believe that

 

GD

[hatchsub]

I would definitely install the SPFI. The Carter/Weber is a notoriously difficult carb. The Hitachi's were actually better if you can believe that

 

GD

Yup carter weber sucks. I had one on my car when i first got it and it never really ran right. Then i swapped manifolds and installed a hitachi. It ran lightyears better with that carb. Then i did the full upgrade and went with a 32/36 weber. That along with the 5 speed and free flowing exhaust have transformed my car from slow to reasonable fun to drive. lol

[carfreak85]

I wrote that durring an unemployed phase of my life AFTER I had done two conversions. The wiring portion could be done better, and I intend to improve it when I do the next one as it will be easier for me to take the time to produce pictures and lay things out as I go. I have improved the production of my harnesses each time I have done one as I become more familar with how aspects of the conversion are affected by things done at that first, most critical stage of wiring. The harness preperation is by FAR the biggest roadblock to getting other people to try out SPFI with the EA81. If it were simple, then everyone would have it and no one would be buying Weber's.

I printed off a copy of your manual on 3/28/2007 and have reached as far as harvesting parts off a 5 speed car with a black ECU. Please hurry with those updates! Actually, any insight you can provide would be great. At this point my guide is a year old and probably could be amended.

[cole098]

WOW 335 views and it only started with a simple question LOL ...

[ChuChi]

It's a great question, what do you expect?

 

Now where is this write up everyone talks about? I'm finding mentions of it all over the place but am having a hell of a time digging it up. I'm contemplating attempting to convert my EA82. There's piles of SPFI EA82 cars in the junkyards around here...