Second opinion: "new rack not centered"

[dhewitt]

I ordered a new steering rack for our 2003 Outback with 96,000 miles on it. It came from a dealership and is OE. My mechanic installed it and determined that it was not centered. New to me, but he said it meant that I wouldn't be able to turn left without a lot of turns of the steering wheel. I'm not second-guessing him, but does this mean a problem with the rack, or just a poor adjustment job at the factory? Maybe it got knocked out of whack in shipping?

[Gloyale]

I ordered a new steering rack for our 2003 Outback with 96,000 miles on it. It came from a dealership and is OE. My mechanic installed it and determined that it was not centered. New to me, but he said it meant that I wouldn't be able to turn left without a lot of turns of the steering wheel. I'm not second-guessing him, but does this mean a problem with the rack, or just a poor adjustment job at the factory? Maybe it got knocked out of whack in shipping?

 

 

Sounds like crap to me. I can't even think what he possibly means???? Get an alignment and it should be fine.

[dhewitt]

Sounds like crap to me. I can't even think what he possibly means???? Get an alignment and it should be fine.

 

Well, which part is crap?

 

He said that turning left you needed twice as many steering wheel rotations to get the same turn of the wheels as on the right (or vice versa, I forget). I trust he didn't just lie to me!?

[cobcob]

I smell some BS

[griffenrider]

I think there's some BS in here too. . . And that doesn't make much sense to me either. Rack and Pinion is rack and pinion, whether or not there are various hydraulic lines and cylinders attached, its not like the gear teeth are smaller on one side compared to the other. Ask your mechanic to explain what he means and report back? Have you driven the car since?

[jamal]

yeah it's not centered because your mechanic didn't install it centered. He has to go back, remove the steering shaft, center the rack, and center the wheel, and adjust the tie rods.

[griffenrider]

yeah it's not centered because your mechanic didn't install it centered. He has to go back, remove the steering shaft, center the rack, and center the wheel, and adjust the tie rods.

 

Just to satisfy my own curiosity (and since I might be doing this in the near future): 1) how does that affect wheel/steering wheel turn ratio from one side to the other? 2) how does one go about making sure not to screw this up?

[wtdash]

Sounds like the the 'rack and pinion' weren't lined up when either it was made, or less likely installed as it should be 'set' from the factory.

 

If you 100% trust the mech, then he should be your 'expert' source in getting it replaced by the factory. If he's just the closest wrench around, then get a 2nd opinion....go to the 'st(d)ealer' if you must.

 

I'd think you'd notice a much tighter turning radius one way vs. the other, too.

 

Compare it to the old one (or did it go back as a 'core'??)...kinda hard if it's installed...but may shed some light?

 

Good luck.

[naru]

Sounds like poor installation.Rack wasn`t centred before install.

An off-centre variable ratio rack(dunno if that applies to you) may indeed take more steering wheel turns in one direction to get the same amount of wheel deflection.

 

Doubt it is possible to misalign the rack and pinion gears,but,who knows?

[nipper]

Thats impossible the way rack and pinion steering, or any steering works.

 

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering2.htm

 

nipper

[aircraft engineer]

Yah gots a STOOOPID mechanic (if he did the installation)

 

Now, remember, I'm no SUB expert, but I have experience in other rack/pinion steering gear replacement. The Tempo I have - the book said to crank the steering all the way to the left before pulling it out (thru the fender well BTW) and then set the "new" gear to about the same tie rod extensions on each side before installation. The way one went out is th way the new one goes in (lengths and all)

 

So - if you are 5 turns lock to lock in the steering and it takes 3 in one direction, it has to take 2 in the other (and the tires will probably rub against something, too, somewhere)

 

I suppose that with the SUB, you might set them center and make up the offset little bit in the alignment (usually in the alignment they will measure the tie rod lengths to get them about the same at the "middle" - that's the center of the gear.) I'm going to need to do one later to the IMP I just bought but not right now - it just drips a bit.

 

There IS a "brute force" way to fix it without pulling the steering back out but it isn't "elegant" - drop the tie rod ends and determine the lock to lock and the canter of the movement, then reconnect the tie rod ends and have it aligned (again)

[nipper]

Yah gots a STOOOPID mechanic (if he did the installation)

 

 

Remember how i said nothing is impossible as long as you have thumbs?

 

I just went through the FSM, and i cant picture a way that he can do this. Maybe i'm not stupid enough, but the only way for him to really screw this up is to have one tie rod turned all the way out, and the other all the way in.

 

 

Maybe he tried to do this without removing and centering the steering wheel. It is allowable to remove the wheel and center it, sometimes it needs to be done. Thats why they are attached with a nut.

 

nipper

[aircraft engineer]

simple - he installed it, say, a full turn "out", adjusted the tie rods to fit and then wonders why the rack turns more in one direction than the other. Like I said - that's why I MATCH THEM UP BEFORE INSTALLING.

 

Of course, in the Tempo there's that steering U-joint to cause a few bad words to be said because of the lack of clearance...

[griffenrider]

agreed, I'm still puzzling about how you could possibly make that happen. I know the brand-spanking new outbacks are vr, not sure if yours is, but if it is could you make this happen by dialing the flow rate all the way out on just one of the cylinders? Replace the pinion with a pair of ratcheting gears with different diameters, cut the rack in half lengthways and raise half of it? Seems to me like you'd have to work pretty hard to get this to happen. . . Definitely post back if you figure out what happened, I'm curious.

[screwbaru2]

Well I guess I'll join the party. Those telling you that the installtion is wrong and the mech. is BS'ing you are right on the mark. You need to get him to find someone who knows what they're doing and reinstall the rack. This time aligning the steering wheel shaft with the union at the rack. I don't remember if any of the soobs I've done have keyed splines but some cars do. That way DUH DEE DUH's have a harder time screwing it up. How the heck did it aline? How's it drive?

[nipper]

Well I guess I'll join the party. Those telling you that the installtion is wrong and the mech. is BS'ing you are right on the mark. You need to get him to find someone who knows what they're doing and reinstall the rack. This time aligning the steering wheel shaft with the union at the rack. I don't remember if any of the soobs I've done have keyed splines but some cars do. That way DUH DEE DUH's have a harder time screwing it up. How the heck did it aline? How's it drive?

 

sooooooooooooo

 

is the cruise control switch on top of the steering wheel now?

 

 

nipper

[WoodsWagon]

but the only way for him to really screw this up is to have one tie rod turned all the way out, and the other all the way in.

 

 

Maybe he tried to do this without removing and centering the steering wheel. It is allowable to remove the wheel and center it, sometimes it needs to be done. Thats why they are attached with a nut.

 

nipper

 

I bet he did exactly this, and then hooked up the steering coupler to center the wheel a turn off.

Is your airbag light on? Do your horn and cruise controll work? All of these can be fubared if the steering wheel was freespun or if it was put on a turn off and turned to full lock. The clockspring, which is a flexible wiring cable for all those systems to allow the wheel to turn can be snapped by people making just this mistake.

 

Some mechanics are toolbags... try and avoid those ones.

[nipper]

I bet he did exactly this, and then hooked up the steering coupler to center the wheel a turn off.

Is your airbag light on? Do your horn and cruise controll work? All of these can be fubared if the steering wheel was freespun or if it was put on a turn off and turned to full lock. The clockspring, which is a flexible wiring cable for all those systems to allow the wheel to turn can be snapped by people making just this mistake.

 

Some mechanics are toolbags... try and avoid those ones.

 

Sadly you dont know one till you find one

 

At least this is a fairly easy thing to rectify.

 

nipper

[Gloyale]

I think he just didn't center the wheel.

 

And his explanation of *having to turn twice as far* is just a way of saying It's tilted right, so you have to turn it back to center to turn left, and then further(although the wheels and car will be going left the whole time). Or having to turn it back past center to actually be drivng straight.

[nipper]

I think he just didn't center the wheel.

 

And his explanation of *having to turn twice as far* is just a way of saying It's tilted right, so you have to turn it back to center to turn left, and then further(although the wheels and car will be going left the whole time). Or having to turn it back past center to actually be drivng straight.

 

Or move to NJ where you have to make rights to go left

 

:-p

 

nipper

[Gloyale]

2 wrongs don't make a right..........

 

 

 

But 3 lefts do:cool:

[screwbaru2]

sooooooooooooo

 

is the cruise control switch on top of the steering wheel now?

 

 

nipper

Why nipper whatever do you mean??

[fnlyfnd]

Or move to NJ where you have to make rights to go left

 

:-p

 

nipper

 

 

I hate NJ for this reason, and this reason only. Who thought it was a good idea to drive through a suburbia neighborhood only because you have to turn around, or turn left.....

[aircraft engineer]

NJ - do the jug handle shuffle...

 

2 wrongs don't make a right but 2 rights make a left

[dhewitt]

yeah it's not centered because your mechanic didn't install it centered. He has to go back, remove the steering shaft, center the rack, and center the wheel, and adjust the tie rods.

 

This turned out to be a popular thread. Sorry for the delay.

 

I think that Jamal here nailed it, that my mechanic missed on the install. When he called he said that he needed to re-do the installation, and this description sounded like what he was gonna do. He called it a 3-step process.

 

For completeness, he never gave me the car back before fixing it, so I never drove it to verify what was wrong. He fixed it and it drives great now. It's a little tighter on the steering and returns to center faster than before, but that could be because the rack was leaking before and I was used to it being a bit too loose. No?

 

I trust you guys all the way, but perhaps if he was used to replacing racks on other makes, the Soob is different and he wasn't familiar with the process? Just guessing. The guy's a good friend and a well-respected mechanic. He's straight up, but perhaps not as experienced with Soobs as the northerners. I'm hoping there's a good Soob guy in Klamath Falls, OR where we're headed. Anyone know?