trikerbob Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 What kind, type of sealer should be used on the head gaskets. Should it be applied to both sides of the gasket or just one side? If 1 side only, what side? Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 What kind, type of sealer should be used on the head gaskets. Should it be applied to both sides of the gasket or just one side? If 1 side only, what side? Thanks, Bob i've always read that if you get a quality headgasket, no sealer is necessary, and it can do more harm than good. the only place i've ever used sealant is on the cam housing to head junction. *but, i've been wrong before* chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 i've always read that if you get a quality headgasket, no sealer is necessary, and it can do more harm than good. the only place i've ever used sealant is on the cam housing to head junction. *but, i've been wrong before* chris That seems reasonable to me as well. I'll see what a couple others have to say. I think I'll look at the manual and see if it says anything about that. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Some brands will say on the box, do not use sealer. Just clean the holy crap out of the gasket surfaces, use paint thinner, or rubbing alcohol to wipe them clean afterwards and you should be good. Also make sure the oil and coolant passages are clear so that won't drip or run onto the new gaskets during assembly. But if you decide to use it, use thick copper head gasket sealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Factory Service Manual makes no reference of using a sealant, it just says to install head with new gasket . . . and then lists the torquing procedure btw, did you replace the little oil seal in the head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 Factory Service Manual makes no reference of using a sealant, it just says to install head with new gasket . . . and then lists the torquing procedurebtw, did you replace the little oil seal in the head? OIL SEAL? Know nothing about no stinking oil seal.... Need more imput. I'll look and see if I can figure out what you are refering to. bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 But if you decide to use it, use thick copper head gasket sealer. I am going to disagree my Dad did that to his Chrysler Conquest and let's just say he's having to do the head gasket again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azsubaru Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 use a good Fel-Pro head gasket and no sealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 OIL SEAL? Know nothing about no stinking oil seal.... Need more imput. I'll look and see if I can figure out what you are refering to. bob i didn't know about it either, until after i'd reassembled everything and someone here pointed it out to me searching for post now . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 here's the thread, start with post number 7 . . . http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=87003 General Disorder is somebody who really knows these subaru engines, in case you don't recognize him from searching the forum . . . i think he's a subie tech at a dealership . . .(?) possibly your EA82 doesn't have these (mine was an 87) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 The only time I have seen sealer used on head gaskets, is when you are using a copper head gasket, and only when you do not wish your right boot waterproofed by oil, otherwise it is as clean, and dry, as you can get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 here's the thread, start with post number 7 . . .http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=87003 General Disorder is somebody who really knows these subaru engines, in case you don't recognize him from searching the forum . . . i think he's a subie tech at a dealership . . .(?) possibly your EA82 doesn't have these (mine was an 87) All EA82's have the cam tower o-ring. But it's on between the cam tower and the head. Not in the same area as the head gasket but you do have to replace them to get at the head gasket. I'm not a tech for Subaru. I'm a tech for an industrial machinery manufacturer/distributor. Mostly I work on vacuum pumps for high-vac and ultra-vac systems used in high-tech and chemical applications. Very, very complex german made stuff that's the size of a kitchen sink and costs as much as two STi's. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 All EA82's have the cam tower o-ring. But it's on between the cam tower and the head. Not in the same area as the head gasket but you do have to replace them to get at the head gasket. I'm not a tech for Subaru. I'm a tech for an industrial machinery manufacturer/distributor. Mostly I work on vacuum pumps for high-vac and ultra-vac systems used in high-tech and chemical applications. Very, very complex german made stuff that's the size of a kitchen sink and costs as much as two STi's. GD Ok GD, I think I know what your talking about. Isn't there a little grove around the cam tower that needs to be cleaned out then filled again with a non harding sealer? This will prevent oil from leaking from the cam tower. Well no I don't think that would be called an O ring. I don't know what your refering to hear. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy FitzGibbon Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Ok GD, I think I know what your talking about. Isn't there a little grove around the cam tower that needs to be cleaned out then filled again with a non harding sealer? This will prevent oil from leaking from the cam tower. Well no I don't think that would be called an O ring. I don't know what your refering to hear. Bob There is a circular recess machined into the cam tower, around the oil passage, that accepts an o-ring. The OEM o rings are metal reinforced, and nothing else should be used. This is a separate thing from the grove around the cam tower base that you refer to. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Ok GD, I think I know what your talking about. Isn't there a little grove around the cam tower that needs to be cleaned out then filled again with a non harding sealer? This will prevent oil from leaking from the cam tower. That's correct Bob - you have the right area in mind. The groove is to prevent external leakage from that joint between the head and the tower. The O-ring is on the bottom corner just to the side of that groove. It prevents pressurized oil from leaking at that joint in the galley that supply's the cam bearings, rockers, and lifters with fresh oil. It's not an external seal against simply leaking oil out on the ground - it's a high-pressure seal that keeps the oil inside the galley till it reaches it's destination. The temp of the oil, and the pressure of it's flow will collapse a standard o-ring so Subaru switched to using a metal-reinforced o-ring for that location. I use a bit of non-hardening silicone valve sealant to keep the o-ring from falling out durring installation. Make sure to keep RTV away from it as it could harden and clog a component if a small peice were to drift away. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 That's correct Bob - you have the right area in mind. The groove is to prevent external leakage from that joint between the head and the tower. The O-ring is on the bottom corner just to the side of that groove. It prevents pressurized oil from leaking at that joint in the galley that supply's the cam bearings, rockers, and lifters with fresh oil. It's not an external seal against simply leaking oil out on the ground - it's a high-pressure seal that keeps the oil inside the galley till it reaches it's destination. The temp of the oil, and the pressure of it's flow will collapse a standard o-ring so Subaru switched to using a metal-reinforced o-ring for that location. I use a bit of non-hardening silicone valve sealant to keep the o-ring from falling out durring installation. Make sure to keep RTV away from it as it could harden and clog a component if a small peice were to drift away. GD OK GD, I'm still not sure about this, but I'll take a closer look today when I get ready to re-install my new heads to see if I can find what your talking about. The heads I'm getting ready to install, were removed from this motor without being run after it was a fresh rebuild. They are duel port heads and at the Time I needed single port heads. Now that Scott has machined a duel port intake to use the Weber carb, I'm putting those duel port heads back on. So I am assuming that these heads and cam towers will have a new seal in place since all this was rebuilt by a pro shop. On a side note. I'm real curious to see how much difference these duel port heads will make with a duel port manifold and Weber carb setup. I'm also going to use the higher duration cams that came on this motor when I got it. I expect to see about a 10 or 15% increase in power with this setup. Should be very interesting in my Trike. It was like a jack rabbit before running stock single port with Weber carb. So this has got to be a little better. I plan to post what my findings are once I get it back together and have a chance to test it good. Bob:banana: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Ok GD, I think I know what your talking about. Isn't there a little grove around the cam tower that needs to be cleaned out then filled again with a non harding sealer? This will prevent oil from leaking from the cam tower. Well no I don't think that would be called an O ring. I don't know what your refering to hear. Bob Ok, I found the O ring oil seal. I think mine are OK though. Like I said these are new heads and never been run yet. They look fine. Easy item to miss if your not aware of them. I am now! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Ok, I found the O ring oil seal. I think mine are OK though. Like I said these are new heads and never been run yet. They look fine. Easy item to miss if your not aware of them. I am now! Bob Even if the heads are new, the o-ring doesn't come with them. It's actually more associated with the cam tower than the head itself. Make sure they are metal-reinforced o-rings and not just regular rubber. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 Even if the heads are new, the o-ring doesn't come with them. It's actually more associated with the cam tower than the head itself. Make sure they are metal-reinforced o-rings and not just regular rubber. GD To late to check now. Heads are on, cams are on, just need to install the covers and belts today and it will be ready to put back in the Trike. Probably pull the VW motor and put the Subie back in Saturday. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 To late to check now. Heads are on, cams are on, just need to install the covers and belts today and it will be ready to put back in the Trike. Probably pull the VW motor and put the Subie back in Saturday. Bob The heads can stay on. But I urge you to pull the cam cases back off and put the O-ring in. If you don't you may quickly ruin those nice new Cams and you're rockers. The O -ring NEEDS to be there or else the valves will not get oiled properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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