johnette93 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 So the shop that a few of you recommended here in Seattle is saying that they would charge that price to replace the head gasket. They said that they would check and repair all other issues related to seals/gaskets while they were in there. The guy said that people who charge $1700 aren't doing a thorough enough job and you run the risk of blowing the head gaskets again. Is this ridiculous? BTW, it's not an option for me to do this myself or anything of the sort. I also don't want to do a half-a$$ed job of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 That is on the high side, but not toatally unreasonable. Espescially if they are including things like a new timing belt and a FULL reseal. As far as can it be done well for less. Definately. Parts and Machining should be around $500 or less. So if they are charging $2500, then $2000 of that is for there labor. I don't think it should be that much. They ussually run between 1000-1600 for me when I do them. Depends on whether we are doing T-belt, oil pump, waterpump, Plugs and wires, clutch, etc... at the same time. Off the top of my head, I charged about $1650 for the last 2.5 GT I did. In addition to the HGs, I replaced T-belt, front seals, valve covers, T-stat, Plugs and wires, and Clutch. I do only Subaru, so I know excactly how to efficiently disassemble, save time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooparu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I think I paid about $1700 for a head gasket job on my '98 outback. That included new head gaskets, water pump, Timing belt & pullies, plug wires, re-gasket of the entire motor & a clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Perhaps they are splitting the case and sending the block halves in for resurfacing? I would think if that was the case they would want to do a full rebuild , rings, bearings, etc.... adn that would be MORE than $2300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mva5142 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I had a head gasket job done on a '98 outback about a month ago. total was 1201$. The heads did not go to a machine shop. That included cam seals, timing belt, water pump, and new gaskets on the way out. intake, exhaust, valve cover and so on, and it comes with a 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty on parts and labor. I'm happy with the work, was not performed by a subaru shop, but a ASE mechanic. First time to use him, but would use him again. I would suggest asking around a bit more. With the current financial times, I would think you could shop around and find a reputable shop for less than that. Good luck. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 ej22 non interference and no problems with headgaskets can be had for 100-300. Add a reasel, new t belt, water pump, etc, and your into it for cost of pulling motor and swapping stuff around. No way i would fork out money to fix HG on a car, that, will need the same HG replaced in another 80k your shop is right, there is risk of blowing it again, no matter what the cost, this is the 2.5 we are talking of. always risk, ....you want no risk, get a 2.2 good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I think price also depends on weather its SOHC or DOHC (SOHC can be done in the vehicle DOHC almost always requires engine removal)...we charge i believe anywhere from like $1500-$2000...Knowing the extent of the job we do compared to somehwhere else i would personally say that could be a reasonable price especially if they are sending the heads out to be checked...or doing it themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I charge people $700 to do head gaskets. Parts are about $150, add in fluids etc and it usually works out to around $900 or so. I can practically do these in my sleep now, so I don't feel a need to charge crazy prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 if the car is still drivable and you think you could nurse it down to portland. Try calling Richie at Superior Import Repair here in portland. I dont know what he charges for a head gasket off the top of my head, but a friend of mine had her outback done there and it was less than that. www.fixmysuby.com is their website (contact info there) He goes by Richierich on the board. (Richie is the owners name) They are more about making customers happy than bending people over like a dealership will try to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 ej22 non interference and no problems with headgaskets can be had for 100-300. Add a reasel, new t belt, water pump, etc, and your into it for cost of pulling motor and swapping stuff around. No way i would fork out money to fix HG on a car, that, will need the same HG replaced in another 80kyour shop is right, there is risk of blowing it again, no matter what the cost, this is the 2.5 we are talking of. always risk, ....you want no risk, get a 2.2 good luck. 1. The Original Poster in this thread did not state anything about year/model/engine he is quoting that price for. 2. You CANNOT buy a 200-300 dollar EJ22 in this area that is ready to install. Not unless you get lucky. Call a yard here, and even with my "commercial" price, 400 is the cheapest you can get for high miles, unknown condition. low milage are $600 and up depending on phase I or II. Even those are likely to need resealed. 3. I've had to replace headgaskets in four different EJ22s in the last year. They are not impervious to failure. 4. Putting a Non-interferance 2.2 into a newer model (say 92 engine into 2000 outback) is a VERY tricky prospect, not easily done without alot of time to swap various crap around. May still leave you with CELs. It is also Illegal to some extent. Putting older motor into newer car is a modification of OEM polution control. Meaning most shops won't do it. Not that anything would be nessecarilly "wrong" about it. So let's stop talking about swaps, and give the guy asnswers to the question he actually asked. Johnette, year make and model please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I charge people $700 to do head gaskets. Parts are about $150, add in fluids etc and it usually works out to around $900 or so. I can practically do these in my sleep now, so I don't feel a need to charge crazy prices. Do you use OEM gaskets? And do you Machine heads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Do you use OEM gaskets? And do you Machine heads? I only use OEM gaskets for the 2.5, for 2.2's I will use either OEM or aftermarket. No I don't machine heads. I just check them. I've got a few reasons why. First off, the 2.5's lose the gaskets because of bad gasket design/material, not a problem with the block or heads. Second, the factory finish on the heads is better than any typical local machine shop can do. Thirdly if somebody got it hot enough to warp heads, I don't want to fix it. Subie heads are so short they don't warp easily, so if you did, I'm not going to risk fixing it. For what it's worth I've never had one fail again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I only use OEM gaskets for the 2.5, for 2.2's I will use either OEM or aftermarket. No I don't machine heads. I just check them. I've got a few reasons why. First off, the 2.5's lose the gaskets because of bad gasket design/material, not a problem with the block or heads. Second, the factory finish on the heads is better than any typical local machine shop can do. Thirdly if somebody got it hot enough to warp heads, I don't want to fix it. Subie heads are so short they don't warp easily, so if you did, I'm not going to risk fixing it. For what it's worth I've never had one fail again. I agree with all this for the most part. 2.2 I've used a few non-OE gaskets. But I typically use all OEM for all gaskets, the aftermarket valvecovers, and cam seals start leaking too early for my tastes. As far as machining heads, I do it because it's nearly impossible to remove all the old gasket material. Plus I can wire wheel all the carbon out of the combustion chabers and from the valves, then they just dishwash the whole head. I get them back spotless, with a true face, ready to install. I only have the mess of cleaning the block to deal with. I am truely blessed to have the Willamette Valley's best machine shop here in my backyard. Bob Forrest, the finishes on the heads he does are perfect. absolutely perfect. Not disagreeing with you, good to know in case I ever get a customer who needs the "bare minimum" service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 So the shop that a few of you recommended here in Seattle is saying that they would charge that price to replace the head gasket. They said that they would check and repair all other issues related to seals/gaskets while they were in there. The guy said that people who charge $1700 aren't doing a thorough enough job and you run the risk of blowing the head gaskets again. Is this ridiculous? BTW, it's not an option for me to do this myself or anything of the sort. I also don't want to do a half-a$$ed job of it. There are only two shops in this area that I would trust with that job. Smart Service in Seattle and Pacific Import Auto in Tacoma. I know both are very competant and depending on the age and model of your car, that price might not be unreasonable. I know the list price of just the parts that went into my last timing belt job (on our EJ22) was over $750 (we had a friend do the work). Add to that head gaskets and machine shop work and this could be another $1500, I honestly don't know. And to add to someone else's comment, Superior Import Repair in Portland is another quality shop, but certainly outside our area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I know the list price of just the parts that went into my last timing belt job (on our EJ22) was over $750 (we had a friend do the work). Add to that head gaskets and machine shop work and this could be another $1500, I honestly don't know. You got hosed. OEM belt, waterpump, and all seals should be less than $300. I suppose if you paid dealer price for all the idlers too, it could be $700, but that is way too much. Buy the idler set from PCI for 80, use an OEM belt and seals. Get he waterpump from Napa. Headgasket parts should only be another $200 tops. Machining: just surfacing should be about $150 for both heads. A full valve job and pressure test could be alot more, but I never do them unless there was a compression problem installed on engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnette93 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 In a separate thread I posted an update to this with more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnette93 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm an idiot who deserves to pay $2500 for a head gasket- why didn't I just reply on this thread? Ok, I realize I forgot to mention that it is a 99 Legacy Outback with 81k miles on it. It's the DOHC. It is not currently overheating (knock on wood) so driving to PDX may be possible. I am having it hooked up to a little tester doodad to see if it is leaking anything that would indicate head gasket failure is imminent. My timing belt needs replacement soon so I am considering replacing the head gaskets while they're in there already to somewhat save money. Not sure if this is a good idea either. The $2500 included the timing belt, machining and replacing head gaskets, front and rear seals, valve intake and exhaust seals, valve adjustment, thermostat and a coolant flush. It comes with a 12k warantee. This would be at Smart Service Subaru here in Seattle. I got another quote at All Wheel Drive Auto in Kirkland of $1600, not including timing belt. They only offer a 1k warantee. My concern here is trying to balance saving money with quality work. I would prefer to deal with someone who knows Subs well. Frankly we cannot afford to have this done twice so we want to make sure it is done well. I am a female who is not very car savvy so I just don't want to get screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) I have quit a bit to say about this, but I need to head to bed. Most shops in this area charge about 2600-3500 for the job. Our shop charges about 3600 or so depending on what is needed. But that includes maching the heads, instaling new valve stem seals, along with solvent diping the head and valves. Re-sealing oil pump, seperator plate, oil pan, and replacing rear main, valve cover gaskets. New t-belt, H20 Pump. t-stat, pulleys, plugs, and all other seals and gaskets invloved with the tear down of the heads. Those that only charge 1600 or so are only replacing the gaskets and nothing else, some time they don't even maching them, they just check them "straightness" and replace the gaskets if their "staraight." Edited February 19, 2009 by Mugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have quit a bit to say about this, but I need to head to bed. Most shops in this area charge about 2600-3500 for the job. Our shop charges about 3600 or so depending on what is needed. But that includes maching the heads, instaling new valve stem seals, along with solvent diping the head and valves. Re-sealing oil pump, seperator plate, oil pan, and replacing rear main, valve cover gaskets. New t-belt, H20 Pump. t-stat, pulleys, plugs, and all other seals and gaskets invloved with the tear down of the heads. Those that only charge 1600 or so are only replacing the gaskets and nothing else, some time they don't even maching them, they just check them "straightness" and replace the gaskets if their "staraight." You should not make blanket statements like that. I ALWAYS have the heads machined. I ALWAYS replace Cam seals, Crank and Oil pump seals, and vavle cover gaskets. I do waterpumps on cars that are on their second or unknown number of timing belt changes, and I always clean all the carbon off of the piston crowns and the comustion chamber of the heads. I don't mess with the rear main or seperator unless it is leaking, or if the customer would like to do the "preventative" service. About the only thing I don't do is vavle jobs. It just isn't nessecary 99% of the time. IF the car runs well, but just has a leaking headgasket, there is no need to rebuild the heads. Even when I replace all that stuff, total comes out way under $2000. So are you saying I am not doing a good job? guess I just don't see how charging double(to cover expensive overhead) makes you a better mechanic. I have a small shop, and no employees. So I don't have to inflate my prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have had four HG's done. Mostly I buy cars in decent shape with bad HG's and drive them for my business. I haven't had the need to resurface any of those. 3 were 2.5's and one was a 2.2. None have ever gone bad after the repair. Maybe I was lucky, don't know, but on all of the engines, we replaced all of the seals, h20 pump, oil pump, plugs, cuz it is a hell of a lot easier out than in at the time and each was due for that type of maintenance. I think common sense just has to prevail. You do what you think is right for the car in front of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 You got hosed. OEM belt, waterpump, and all seals should be less than $300. I suppose if you paid dealer price for all the idlers too, it could be $700, but that is way too much. Buy the idler set from PCI for 80, use an OEM belt and seals. Get he waterpump from Napa. Headgasket parts should only be another $200 tops. Machining: just surfacing should be about $150 for both heads. A full valve job and pressure test could be alot more, but I never do them unless there was a compression problem installed on engine. I bought all the parts from a dealer at a discount for $525. I figured they would run about $750 if the OP were paying list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron 1 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 rip off what kind of gaskets are they using gold plated or are the union J/K i think thats a little much tell them 1900 take it or leave it. if i lived in WA I'd do it for 300 pluse parts if u lived in utah u could buy the hole car for 2500 that what i paid any way its a rust ball though but it looks good covered in mudd oh ya:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 4. Putting a Non-interferance 2.2 into a newer model (say 92 engine into 2000 outback) is a VERY tricky prospect, not easily done without alot of time to swap various crap around. May still leave you with CELs. It is also Illegal to some extent. Putting older motor into newer car is a modification of OEM polution control. Meaning most shops won't do it. Not that anything would be nessecarilly "wrong" about it. So let's stop talking about swaps, and give the guy asnswers to the question he actually asked. Bull. Use a 1995 EJ22 out of an Automatic car. The autos have EGR like the 2.5's. Exact same emissions systems, same sensors, pretty much plug and play. And there's a lot of 95's out there in the yards, at least on this side of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 rip off what kind of gaskets are they using gold plated or are the union J/K i think thats a little much tell them 1900 take it or leave it. if i lived in WA I'd do it for 300 pluse parts if u lived in utah u could buy the hole car for 2500 that what i paid any way its a rust ball though but it looks good covered in mudd oh ya:lol: Your prices are not in line at all. That is a lot of work for $300. Even working with little to no overhead I still get $700 to do the head gaskets. I buy these 96-99 outbacks with bad head gaskets for $500-1000 all the time. Actually I'm going to go pick another one up in a few hours for $800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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