2Feathers Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have no tail lights! I found this out the other night when a cop pulled me over to tell me. He gave me a $75 ticket, but said they'd waive the fine if I can get the problem fixed before the court date, which is about 10 days away. So I'm in a pinch here! I've found a number of threads with the same problem, but so far I have no solution... All bulbs light up fine when I hit the brakes. (I did have one back-up bulb burned out.) Checked all fuses (under dash and main box under hood), all bulbs, the park light switch on the steering column... nuthin! I saw one thread where someone suggested replacing the middle relay above the interior fuse box with one of the outside relays to see if the one that controlled the tail lights was out, but the original poster was afraid that might fry one of the good ones (they were $100 apiece), and the thread ended before the OP told how they resolved the problem. I'm not exactly electronically (or mechanically for that matter) astute, so hopefully someone can offer some other simple suggestions. Otherwise, I suppose I'll be making a trip to the dealer. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 have you checked all the fuses with a test light? Sometimes looking at them isnt good enough.. Have you checked the bulbs themselves....I believe there all dual filament bulbs back there brake/tail lights...As for the relays above the fuse box in the interior of the vehicle...personally i wouldnt mess with them....they are the main relay, FP relay, and sub fan relay #2....Personally i dont see how those would cause a tail light problem with no other symptoms....Anyways if you have a test light you could also pull the bulbs out of the sockets and see if you have power and ground at the socket... So... Check Fuses w/ test light Visually check bulbs (make sure a filament isnt burned out) Check sockets for proper power and ground with the headlights turned on ...At least this is what i would try first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) The problem may be due to a bad tail light relay, located in the dash fuse panel. Check to see if the marker lights will work when you turn on the switch that is mounted on top of the steering column. That switch bypasses the relay. If the lights work that way then the chances are the relay is the problem. For your reference, fuse #5 in the dash fuse panel and fuse #23 in the main panel under the hood are in the circuit. Edited March 9, 2009 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Feathers Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Cougar, by "marker lights" are you talking about the side lights? I haven't noticed if those worked or not... I'll check when I get home from work. EVOthis, I did check all of the fuses visually and with a multimeter, and they were all good. I even switched a spare fuse for the one in the #5 position under the dash to make sure. I also pulled all of the bulbs, one at a time while the switch was on, because I had read a thread that mentioned something about the filaments possibly causing problems. Although I didn't do a thorough visual inspection of each bulb, I checked voltage at the socket for one of the tail lights, and got juice when the brake pedal is pushed, but it goes away as soon as you let off the pedal and only the light switch is on. One other strange thing I noticed last night while I was working on it is that the front park lights come on when the brake pedal is pushed. That's not normal, is it? I've owned the car for 14 years, but my daughter has been driving it for the past 5 years. So I'm not sure how long that's been going on. We did have a problem with a tail light bulb a while back (maybe a year ago), and it seems like it just didn't fit properly in the socket, like it only worked when it was held a certain way. I'm to the point now where I'm rethinking everything from the past that might have been relevant, trying to remember what all I've done over the years, and may just be confusing the issue even more... Anyway, I really appreciate your responses! Any other suggestions would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 One other strange thing I noticed last night while I was working on it is that the front park lights come on when the brake pedal is pushed. That's not normal, is it? Definately not normal! Strange things like this can sometimes be caused by a faulty ground somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Sounds like one of your daul filamint brake lights are shorted out. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) In answer to your question, the marker lights are the running lights. Since you have checked the fuses then I suspect turning on the parking light switch mounted on top of the steering column will make the running lights work. The tail light relay is most likely bad. You also have another problem from what you stated later. Like Nipper mentioned, it appears that there is either a bad brake light bulb filament causing the front running lights to turn on when the brake pedal is pressed or you have the wrong bulb installed in the rear lights. Some folks have placed a single filament bulb where a dual filament bulb should be. Try removing the brake light bulbs and then see if the trouble with the front lights occurs. If the trouble clears, you have a rear bulb problem. Either one of the brake light filaments is crossed inside the bulb or the wrong bulb type is installed in the socket and should be a dual filament.**** The fact that you stated that the replacement bulb you put in didn't fit well signals me that you have the wrong bulb type installed in the socket***. Edited March 9, 2009 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearlm30 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I had a similar experience with a MY 93 impreza. I dont remember the details since it was more than 5 or 6 years ago. Anyway, the impreza was installed with after market remote entry/start system. But it was not done right, the wiring shorted out and it kept blowing a fuse(I forgot which one) Check the wiring by the left kick panel and all your relative fuse. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Feathers Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Okay, now its getting weird... Here is what I've tried so far tonight... 1) I replaced all of the tail/brake lights with new bulbs. Double filament (#1157) for the tail/brake lights, and single filament (#1156) for the signal/back-up lights.) 2) I pulled the center relay from above the interior fuse box and moved one of the side ones over to replace it. I tried to check the relay with a multimeter, but wasn't sure how. (When I touched the leads to the two silver metal tips, the meter read resistance. When I touched the leads to the two copper colored tips, nothing. Is that the way its supposed to react?) Still nothing, so I decided to try: 3) At the advice of the guy who sold me the bulbs at the auto parts store, I took a wire, attached one end to the metal body of the car to ground it, then touch the other end to the outside of the bulb's socket to see if it might be a bad ground. But first, I decided to move the car around into the garage so I could see better. BUT the battery was dead when I tried to start the car and I had to jump it off. I didn't think I had used enough juice while I was monkeying around with the lights to drain the battery, but maybe so??? Anyway, I jump it off, drive around the neighborhood for a while to charge the battery, bring it back to the garage and start getting my ground wire test st up. I get everything ready, then go turn the key, turn the light switch on, return to the rear of the car, and guess what? THE RUNNING LIGHTS ARE ALL ON!!! What is up with that??? The only odd things left are that the front park lights still come on when I push the brake pedal, and the center brake light (the one that's inside above the rear seats, under the rear window) stays on even when the brake pedal isn't pushed. It gets brighter when the brakes are pushed, but it never goes off unless I turn the light switch off. Is that the way its supposed to work? I've never noticed, but I thought it stayed off unless the brakes are pushed. (My manual doesn't even mention that light...) Also, the engine fans came on after I turned off the engine... Maybe that's supposed to happen, too, and always does, but I sure don't remember that before either, and neither did my daughter, who drives it every day. So could I have inadvertently done something to fix it or could there be some weird electrical demon possessing the car? One other strange tidbit I'll share, and I don't know if this might have anything to do with any of this or not, but I recently had some problems that I thought were simply the alternator, so I have a 2-month-old alternator. I said I "thought" the older problem was the alternator, because the car lost all electrical power while driving one night, and wouldn't hold a charge. Ended up getting 2 different bad alternators from Advance Auto (checked bad in the store) before getting a good one from NAPA. However, the battery still kept losing a charge. (Took the NAPA alternator back to have it checked just to make sure, but it checked okay and is still in the car.) I had a Toyota mechanic friend look at it, and he diagnosed a bad crank shaft pulley, of all things! (The center O-ring was cracked, so the outer, grooved ring was slipping and wasn't turning the belts once we got it up to highway RPMs.) Changed out the pulley with a new one about two months ago, and the problem hasn't re-ocurred. Again, I may be thinking too much and confusing the issue by bringing in too many needless tidbits, and I'm sorry if that's the case, but I don't want to leave any stone unturned. I hope its fixed, but I don't know why or how, and I'm paranoid it will just come back. Anyway, you all have been great for trying to help, and any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I had this sort of happen to me once. The virgin switch on the steering column. If it is in the middle position, you will not have running lights. Mine was in the middle position for 2 days and made me nuts. You couldnt tell it was in the middle by looking at it easily. I must have knocked it at some point. So maybe you had two problems. The brake lights in this car do not cross the parking light circuit, but they do run in parallel to it. Remove all the brake light bulbs (not the 3rd light) and see if the parking lights stop doing thier brake thing. If the 3rd light is staying on it may be the brake light switch is stuck. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Feathers Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Thanks nipper... I went back and tried your suggestion. I took all the brake light bulbs out, and pushed the brake pedal, and the front park lights did NOT come on. Went back to replace the bulbs and noticed I had somehow left one of the signal light sockets empty (no bulb). So I replaced that bulb as well. Voila! Everything seemd to be working correctly now. The center brake light stays OFF until the brakes are applied, and the park lights stay off as well... So I still don't really know if I did anything to fix this or just somehow exorcised the demon by accident. Either way, I hope its fixed permanently (or at least as permanently as one can fix a 15-year-old car with 170K miles). I'll still be a little paranoid for a few days, worried that there may still be something going on to drain the battery. Can you all reasure me, or is this a legitimate concern? At any rate, I greatly appreciate everyone's helpful advice. I'll let you know if the demon moves back in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Electricity can be an evil overlord. Glad it all worked out. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Although I didn't do a thorough visual inspection of each bulb, I checked voltage at the socket for one of the tail lights, and got juice when the brake pedal is pushed, but it goes away as soon as you let off the pedal and only the light switch is on. One other strange thing I noticed last night while I was working on it is that the front park lights come on when the brake pedal is pushed. That's not normal, is it? I've owned the car for 14 years, but my daughter has been driving it for the past 5 years. So I'm not sure how long that's been going on. We did have a problem with a tail light bulb a while back (maybe a year ago), and it seems like it just didn't fit properly in the socket, like it only worked when it was held a certain way. Parking lights coming on with the brakes, and also a bulb noit fitting the socket correctly are both sgns you have a single fillament bulb in the one of the dual Brake/Tail sockets. The single lead contact in the center of the bulb bridges the two contacts in the bottom of the socket. The pins on the side of a dual fillament bulb should be at different *heights* to prevent this, but it is possible in a worn socket to shoove a single were a dual is supposed to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Glad to hear you got the lights working correctly. You stated that you swapped the tail light relay with another one and I assume you did this without testing the original relay as I suggested in my earlier post to see if it was the cause of the no tail light problem. You may now have moved a bad relay into another position so if you find that something else now doesn't work it may be due to that. As far as the battery drain goes you should have the electrical system tested. Normal drain current is around 25 milliamps. If there is over a 60 milliamp drain I would try to find out the source of the excessive drain current. Also have the charging system load tested to make sure the alternator is doing its' job and the battery is in good shape. Doing those things will confirm there isn't any more gremlins in the charging system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 No one has mentioned this, but I have to ask because I have had two different makes of vehicles do similar things you are describing, including my subie. Do you have a trailering package and a trailer wiring connector box on the driver side attached to the side of the reciever hitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1953 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 If you have no marker, parking or license lights, but do have instrument panel lights, chances are the problem may be in the virgin switch which turns on the parking lights. As it is not used frequently it may develop corrosion in the OFF position. Note that the OFF position actually completes the circuit to the stalk combination light switch for the parking lights. Hence, you may find the parking lights work with the virgin switch in the ON position, but not with the stalk switch ON for parking lights, and the virgin switch in the OFF position. You may be able to clear the corrosion by flipping the virgin switch on and off multiple times. If not, a replacement may be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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