Why so offended

[ezapar]

I think the only one here who is offended is you Phiz. None of us really seem to care if you have a lift or not.

 

So who was it that peed in your cheerios?

[Phizinza]

I think the only one here who is offended is you Phiz. None of us really seem to care if you have a lift or not.

 

So who was it that peed in your cheerios?

Actually all the USMB peeps here seem pretty chill. Its more of the people I bump into in "real life" and the peeps over on AUSubaru who seem to have a problem with it. I just know if I vent here people come up with reasonable answers, unlike other places..

Its all good, I'm happy with what I have I just have gotten fed up with always answering the same questions and getting the same defensive replies from people who have lift kits or want one.

Mainly I'm fed up with those "you have to have all this or it won't work" people.

 

Hey, if you want a lift thats great for you. It does give a certain look of beefy and tough and maybe thats what does it for ya...

Edited April 20, 2009 by Phizinza

[Yo'J]

I'm only offended I don't have your front bumper! looks very pro! A lift on the early models looks like a subaru grown up! Yours follow suit.

[Phizinza]

Yeah, lucky me getting given a free bullbar.. wasn't sure if I was going to put it on or not but its a good place to mount my 170 Light Force lights.

[Twitch de la Brat]

I agree newer gen models have terrible over hangs and would be helped more by a lift more then the older gens

 

 

Since we're posting pictures,

 

No lift, and I think it has plenty of clearance. More then a Toyota Landcruiser under the diffs.

Its not like a body lift gains you much, because in the middle you still have a driveline, sump, diff, etc all at the same height as before. That's my thinking. Only front and rear suffer form no lift and I haven't had much trouble with that yet.

 

You drive home very good points there.

My stock height brat(brumby) with summer slicks is just as capable as many

of those jacked up jeeps because of the weight advantage.

They sink in snow/mud/soft dirt while I ride right on top of it.

All i need is a slightly bigger and wider tire and I'm pretty near to

unstoppable.

 

Oh, and I hate you

Your bumper =

 

Twitch

[RAugur33]

Phiz,

 

Forget all the off-road mumbo jumbo. The only reason to lift a Subaru is because Chicks Dig It!!!!

 

Hot girls flock to old, dented, lifted Subaru's like cops to donuts. No offense to donuts.

 

That bumper looks funny on your car, send it over to me and I will fix it for you.

[The Beast I Drive]

If you can squeeze bigger tires in with no lift then I see no real reason to lift it for your terrain. Me, I lift mine for a couple reasons, I have the resources/time to make the lifts, it looks killer, and the terrain I ride on is mostly hills with lots of sage brush and rocks, and in the summer the grass is so dry, I like to have my exhaust as high as possible while still resembling something somewhat legal, and Ive gone through obstacles that my unlifted Brat would never be able to get even halfway through. I guess it really all depends on what you built the rig for, and for your area, looks like you dont need a lift Plus your sedan looks killer like it is

-Bill

[ezapar]

Its not like a body lift gains you much, because in the middle you still have a driveline, sump, diff, etc all at the same height as before. That's my thinking. Only front and rear suffer form no lift and I haven't had much trouble with that yet.

 

I can roll a basketball under my car without it hitting anything. Can you?

[Phizinza]

Probably not, but I only have 26.3"OD tyres (which are the limit in my mind because I need the gearing more then clearance). I don't play basketball so I can't say for sure.

[32ford]

you dont need a lift, just a sumpguard, lsd,and some tyres with grip. I am surprised people bother with lifts rather than spending the money on an lsd (or beer). maybe if you shared your beer with them,no offence would be taken.

[ezapar]

I hate consoles... although the wii is fun.

Here a 2 to 3 inch lift kit costs between $400-500 ($290-360USD). I would much prefer to spend that money on a weber, or two brand new MT tyres.

 

Hate is a very strong word. I love my PS3. You would too if you came over and spent a few hours on it. I guarantee you that.

 

My car has an LSD. It has a Weber. It has the best off road tires you can fit under a hatch and still push them with 80 hp. It has a 5 speed swap and an XT6 clutch kit. It also has a lift. No reason to hate the lifts man.

[thatswhatshesaid]

I can roll a basketball under my car without it hitting anything. Can you?

 

Excellent point. My Outback has 27.00" OD tires...and I can barely roll a softball under it. Lol...A lift, in my opinion, is always valuable in helping with ground clearance. Heck, a lift should pay for itself in an offroad vehicle after you stop busting oil pans, radiators, differentials, etc on rocks...

 

I'm not gonna hate on you for not lifting it (heck, I've never lifted any of my Subarus)...but don't hate on anyone that lifts their rig just because they think it's better...because they're probably right.

 

Trust me - a lift is nice when you're off-road. VERY NICE.

 

 

Plus chicks dig it. Ha haaaa...(but I do it for the offroad capabilities! I swear!)

 

[WoodsWagon]

I'm not offended by you not having a lift in your car, but I gaurantee that your car would not be able to tackle the terrain that I regularly took my wagon in due the to low ground clearance. My 4" lift only gained me an extra inch of ground clearance with stock tires on. But the extra space to fit oversized tires was crucial. Yes, I lost a lot of gearing by going to 235/75r15's, but I made up for it with an EJ22. The tire size is key to your ground clearance. Sure, your car and mine would be equal in the sand, loose but even gravel and light mud, so in those circumstances my lift would be a waste. But in the northeast, the trails are narrow, with big, angular, sharp rocks (it ain't called the Granite State for nothing), lots of trees, roots, brooks, ponds, and mud. Not just spin donuts and have fun mud, but deep rutted bury-a-fullsize-truck-to-the-axles mud. Oh, and snow. Getting the body of the car up out of the snow makes it that much harder to get high-centered. I'd break trail with my wagon so that tacoma's and jeeps could follow behind, and when I blew my tranny, the trucks didn't make it 20 yards beyond the subaru before they sank, and that was in the flat. The other thing is when your going down a trail and there's a rock sticking up in the middle, but the only line you can take is to straddle it, you have to have clearance.

 

Sure, I made it some places in my stock parts legacy before I used it for the ej swap. It's amazing what the car could drag its self through, but in the process of dragging the exhaust got ripped off, the gas tank got thoroughly mashed, the front bumper shredded, the rockers crushed, the floorpans pushed up. It was just plain destructive, and that was on the mild trails.

 

A lift is a nececity for the terrain I offroad in. It may not be for yours.

[TeamCF]

I can roll a basketball under my car without it hitting anything. Can you?

 

hehe I remembered I had a basketball out in the shop. Made sure it was aired up and sure enough, rolled right on under the Soob with plenty of room to spare.

 

You might need to pick a bigger ball for checking lifted Soobs.

 

(I'm just givin' ya a hard time. All in fun.)

[Phizinza]

I've done the EJ thing, still wouldn't go any larger then 27" OD tyres due to the things I drive up. I don't like to take anything at speed. Everything I do I crawl over except for sand.

 

A lift kit won't help if I stick with tyres that already fit. In the middle you still have exhaust and driveline. In the front you still have a sump and engine crossmember hanging down. And in the rear you still have your diff.

I've seen a non-lifted roo with 29" OD tyres, so why lift I thought to myself and I couldn't come up with an answer. Of course for others they might want the look, or they might think its easier to buy/build a lift and install it then some simple fender cutting and some hammering. For me, I don't need one.

I don't care what you run, and yea some subies with lifts look awesome like subarubrat's 12"er. But I keep getting the sense that the people who think I'm against the lift kit are defending their Subaru like I'm saying its a waist of time and money?

 

Please do show me these trails that require a lift kit in a Subaru. I really do believe you that they exist, I just want to see them.

 

 

Hate is a very strong word. I love my PS3. You would too if you came over and spent a few hours on it. I guarantee you that. .

Hate may be a strong word, but it best describes my attitude while using a PS3 controller

I have played CMD, GTA4, and a couple of other games on a mates PS3 for more then a few hours. Trust me when I say I don't like PS3's and Xbox's and I never will. I know where to put my "gaming" money and I'm happy where I do put it. Zap, you seem to know it all but you don't know...

Edited April 26, 2009 by Phizinza

[SoobieDoo]

It's all about the tires, man. And the personal preference on trimming and bashing. I'm putting on 28's with wheels very close to stock offset, and should need very little trimming. Not much gearing loss with just an inch!

[ezapar]

With 4 inch blocks at the engine crossmember and 3 inch blocks at the trans crossmember, the exaust angles up, not straight back. With my 2 piece driveline, the carrier bearing mounted good and high, I have lots of clearance you could never boast about with your not lifted car.

 

In the end, I see your point. I've yet to see an Australian (Subaru) offroad shot or video of anything but sand, ruts, or mild mud holes. I'm unimpressed.

Evans Creek would change your mind about not lifting your car. (as my boy Team CF will find out in August) back at your bro.

Have you ever seen some of the vids or pics of what the guys up North of us do with their Soobs at Walker Valley?

 

 

 

 

I have played CMD, GTA4, and a couple of other games on a mates PS3 for more then a few hours. Trust me when I say I don't like PS3's and Xbox's and I never will. I know where to put my "gaming" money and I'm happy where I do put it. Zap, you seem to know it all but you don't know...

 

You are set in your ways. Not sure that even if I did know it all that you would listen to anything I say. Not real sure where you put your "gaming money". . .

 

Enjoy your non-lift. Enjoy your non-video gaming life. I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff to do where you're located.

[Phizinza]

the guys up North of us do with their Soobs at Walker Valley?

 

 

Enjoy your non-lift. Enjoy your non-video gaming life. I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff to do where you're located.

 

I have seen those videos. I know I'm boring but I wouldn't take a Subaru through what they take them through and how they take them through it. I like slow crawling, and in that terrain you just can't go slow in a Subaru. I never said that everywhere in the world doesn't need a lift, just I don't. And a Subaru with a 4" lift and 29" tyres would last as long as you go drive on the road without seeing a cop here.

 

I spent it on a nice PC, steering wheel, joystick, and decent headphones.

I can play GTA, CMD, COD4, COD5, HL2, Fallout 3, etc etc quiet happliy. As well as design in CAD, edit video, create websites, surf the net, play music, print, edit photos, chat to friends and family etc all on the one machine. And when I get a large TV I'm able to plug it into that and do all of that on a nice large screen with a wireless keyboard and mouse that cost bugger all for a PC. Enjoy the terrain you have to drive on and the PS3 you have to waist those hours when its too freakin cold and wet outside. I'll enjoy my stuff while hopefully not continually being convinced I've done it all wrong and I need a PS3, a lifted Subaru and a 6 day a week job to pay for all that.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Phizinza

[ezapar]

note* I'm not any kind of mad or trying to act that way. I'm speaking with a mild tone and at a regular noise level. As if we were all face to face or on the phone or something. This is all for the sake of dicussion and or debate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

hehe I remembered I had a basketball out in the shop. Made sure it was aired up and sure enough, rolled right on under the Soob with plenty of room to spare.

 

You might need to pick a bigger ball for checking lifted Soobs.

 

(I'm just givin' ya a hard time. All in fun.)

Understood, but. . .

 

And check this out. . . See the damage to the rocker panel? I was able to drive out of that after going over a log. A not lifted Soob would have had to winch or get pulled off of it. :wink:

Edited April 26, 2009 by Zap

[SoobieDoo]

So Phiz...just how strict are the cops there? Here, our soobs are classified as cars, so lifted the bumpers are too high. Welded steering knuckles...probably illegal on the street. Tires uncovered by fenders are also illegal. Cops just don't care about it for the most part, unless you're being reckless or breaking real laws. Walker valley may not be your style, but it's still a reality. You don't need a lift, so more power to you!

[WoodsWagon]

I've seen a non-lifted roo with 29" OD tyres, so why lift I thought to myself and I couldn't come up with an answer. Of course for others they might want the look, or they might think its easier to buy/build a lift and install it then some simple fender cutting and some hammering.

 

 

Please do show me these trails that require a lift kit in a Subaru. I really do believe you that they exist, I just want to see them.

 

My tires rub at full lock on the "framerail" as it is in the front. That's after hammering my floorpan and doorpost back so far that I can't put the clutch pedal all the way down. There's been extesive "trimming" and welding. I realy don't see as how you could put on the tires I run without a lift and actually have any turning ability or suspension travel.

 

My carrier bearing is on mabe 2" blocks, crossmembers on 3", and struts on 4". I made the exhaust so that it is tucked up tight against the body, and even so I crushed my flowmaster 40 with it tucked up flatwise in the back.

 

Here's an example: You come to a stone wall, a notch has been opened for a quad bike to fit through. so wall is like so \__/. Wagon is wider than quadbike. There is no "line" you can take through the wall, so You have to put your wheels on it, drop onto the rockers to pass through the gap, then run your back wheels over it. No lift= no rockers. Or doors.

 

A trail isn't just a road with higher grades than normal. A trail has terrain and obstacles.

 

You may be in luck of seeing a real trail. Some of my friends have been talking of filming a "retirement" run as it is of my wagon. Kicking some rump roast with the old beast before she's written off for good.

[Phizinza]

Its similar here, but with a few more rules. The thing is they do care here. I know a guy who had a 2" body lift and the suspension adjusted all the way up. The defected on the suspension saying it was adjusted to high and was dangerous, they didn't seem to mind about the body lift.. But I know people who have been defected by a 3" body lift (2" is maximum allowed). Also they get you for tyres. Here in the state of South Australia I think it is anything 15mm over original OD is illegal wheels that widen the track more then 20mm are too. Of course that makes all those 14" Desert Rat wheels we have here illegal and the tyres I run are illegal too. But I run on the method of making it look neat and tidy keeps you out of trouble. I know I could run a 2" lift no worries, but why. Its only 2" and I've already got the tyres fitted. I'll only gain bumper clearance, so I don't see a point to it in my car.

[Phizinza]

M

Here's an example: You come to a stone wall, a notch has been opened for a quad bike to fit through. so wall is like so \__/. Wagon is wider than quadbike. There is no "line" you can take through the wall, so You have to put your wheels on it, drop onto the rockers to pass through the gap, then run your back wheels over it. No lift= no rockers. Or doors.

I guess when you don;t have ATV trails within 1000km of your place you don't need to worry about this... Look, I have very few places I can 4wd. And most of them I've been to more then a few times. I know what I can drive over and I know what I can't. I've never been left behind because of my Subaru not making it somewhere because here you can go around it. Not that I'm usually the one to go around the stuff, I'll give it a crack.

I'm fine with you wanting/needing a lift.. Why are you going on and on about why you need the lift at me? I know you might need/want it, I don't care. What I care about is people going on and on at me on why they need it when the only places they have driven are where I have driven.

[WoodsWagon]

You came from this:

Why is it that everyone that asks why I don't have a lift kit seems so offended by my answers? I guess maybe they are trying to defend the reason they spent $$$ on a lift kit? Why can't they be happy with what they have and be happy with the route they took?

 

 

 

To this:

I guess when you don;t have ATV trails within 1000km of your place you don't need to worry about this... Look, I have very few places I can 4wd. And most of them I've been to more then a few times. I know what I can drive over and I know what I can't. I've never been left behind because of my Subaru not making it somewhere because here you can go around it. Not that I'm usually the one to go around the stuff, I'll give it a crack.

I'm fine with you wanting/needing a lift.. Why are you going on and on about why you need the lift at me? I know you might need/want it, I don't care. What I care about is people going on and on at me on why they need it when the only places they have driven are where I have driven.

 

Then complain to those people? Your origional question was why people waste money on lifts when you can get there without one, My response is that lifts are a nececity for the terrain I drive on, and therefore not a waste.

[Phizinza]

You came from this:

 

To this:

 

 

Your origional question was..

You have me all wrong, where did I say I think people waste money on lift kits? I never (I don't think?) did. What I was saying is why do people get all pricky about their lift kit because I don't have one? I don't care what you have or why you have it. I'm annoyed at people that care about what I have and in turn get defensive of their choice.

Sorry if this wasn't clear. I can't see how you missed that point but sorry.