wildwagonz Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 My friends 98 Legacy with a 2.2 had a timing belt idler seize up while she was driving and the car quit... I tore it down and threw a new pulley on it and a new belt and went to start it ............ Bad news, It just spins over freely with no resistance, sounds like there is no compression at all Im assuming the valves smacked into the pistons and bent the Sh*t out of them.. My question is, should I pull the heads off and have them fixed or throw a new set of heads on there, or should I just replace the engine with a junkyard engine? Would the valves hitting the pistons damage the pistons, Im just saying I don't wanna put the money into redoing the heads and have there be a weak spot in the piston from the contact with the valves and have something happen shortly after fixing it.... Anyone have any experience with this, Stupid Subaru for making the newer 2.2 an interference motor Thanks for the insight... Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I had the same thing happen on a 97 Legacy, I only had one valve get bent. I replaced with a junk yard motor, and the mains where knocking in it. I ran it a while and then I ordered a motor from CCR and requested one that was not interference. They sold me a great engine and was great to do bussiness with. Just in case you dont know the pistons were coned up on the 97 and above for more horse power, which causes the problem with the valves when something goes wrong. So I assume they put the regular piston in the engine I ordered, I did not ask them what they did to make it non interference, I just know I asked for non interference and they told me that is what they made for me. If your engine is low mileage I would think you would be O.K. just replacing the heads or valves, someone here should know the facts on this so maybe they will give you more input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I'd do this. I'd pull the engine. Remove heads. Examine pistons. If pistons not bad have head fixed or used heads(and I'd probably have them checked). Seal everything up (crank, cams, oil pump, baffle plate) new plugs, reinstall. I looked up where you are. I'll be near Brookville next weekend. I have parts engines here if you want used heads. I have a couple 97 2.2's here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwagonz Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 Sweet, I'll pull the engine out this week or try to and get the heads off, I would hate to replace the engine if it dont have to, She has had that car since it had low low miles and I have done all the work to it, it ran so well to just scrap the engine (now has 134000 on it) She also has VERY limited budget and a junkyard engine can run somewhere up to 5 hundred bucks which more than she has really.... I'll see what the pistons look like when I get in there and go from there ~Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Friends with no money. Common issue. Amazing isn't it. Ignore it until it breaks then beg for mercy. A car is an investment just like anything else. o.k. it's a depreciating investment. But you still have some control of the overall cost with proper maintenance. Invest as you go, or invest multiples later. Over the years personally this is what I've learned (and my friends learned). I'll help them maintain their cars. If something like a TB breaks because it wasn't done don't even call me, you're on your own. Now if you want to do a TB because it's due thats a much different story. Works for me. Needy friends are easy to come by it seems. PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 most likely just bent valves. have a look, you can probably fix it cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Sweet, I'll pull the engine out this week or try to and get the heads off, I would hate to replace the engine if it dont have to, She has had that car since it had low low miles and I have done all the work to it, it ran so well to just scrap the engine (now has 134000 on it) She also has VERY limited budget and a junkyard engine can run somewhere up to 5 hundred bucks which more than she has really.... Does this 2.2 look like a 2.5? (Spark plugs tubes through the cam covers) if so, it's intereference, and chances are you bent valves. However, if you used the incorrect timing mark when you put the new belt on, it would also sound like this. If the engine does not look like a 2.5 (Spark plugs above the cam covers) is is a NON interference motor, and you likely just have the belt on wrong. I would double check the timing and make sure you have everything right before you tear the motor apart. See the below picture: The screwdriver on the right is pointing towards the timing mark. Down at the bottom you will see a pointer on another mark on the pulley, this is NOT the timing mark, but it is commonly confused for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwagonz Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 Thanks for all the suggestions, The bet was actually not due for another 30,000 miles and she always has kept up on the maintenance she just does nt have the money at this point to pay for a huge fix.... I know I got the belt on right, I work on Subaru's for a living, Just have never run into a timing belt doing this on a 2.2, usually its just replace the belt and your good to go...... I am thinking bent valves, but just want to be sure the pistons wouldnt have been weakened or anything by coming in contact with the valves... Thanks ~Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 If the belt was that far away from the change interval you gotta let us know what failed and what brand the part was. Did the belt fail on its own? Did an Idler or the WP fail? Did a cam lockup? I'm VERY curious. And always interested in hearing about parts failures to learn about what not to use. PM me if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwagonz Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hi, Sorry yeah I should have went into more detail, The one idler (toothed one) not smooth that bolts to the water pump froze up. It locked up solid and was a Subaru part, never made any noise prior to this. It sheared the bolt right off the water pump and pulley and away went the belt and timing and apparently valves I am hoping it is just heads, if you can PM me with some prices on some used good heads, I am just trying to get this thing going for her as cheap as possible Thanks everyone for suggestions ~Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 it probably has bent valves, but before you pull the heads, hang a new belt and pulley / pump and start it up. you might get lucky. you will use the belt and pulley on the replacement if you swap the engine so it's not a waste of money. do a compression check and maybe a vacuum gauge if it doesn't run well. no reason to crack it open if it's good and running some test might tell you about the heads and pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwagonz Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 I have done that already and it wont even start......sounds like it has no compression at all....spins very very freely with the starter with almost no resistance even with the new belt and pump on there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 if it spins that freely, check for flexplate broken. Have someone crank it and see if the front pulley is even turning? If while cranking the front pully is stil, then it could be broken flexplate, assuming a automatic tanny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 See the below picture: The screwdriver on the right is pointing towards the timing mark. Down at the bottom you will see a pointer on another mark on the pulley, this is NOT the timing mark, but it is commonly confused for it. Yep hat little mark for me was covered in grime and I was using the white mark instead.. took me a total of 8 hours total (I started late in the day) after I found the mark on the crank car pretty much started up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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