georgefgd Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I'm in the market for what will be my 3rd Subaru. In the past I had a 92 Legacy wagon and an 02 Outback wagon. I've always like the body style of the EA82 wagons and I've been looking at GLs and Loyales in the area trying to decide what it will be. I wouldn't mind getting some opinions from you guys on which way I should go. The only glaring difference to me is the D/R 4WD on the GLs vs. the push button 4WD on the Loyales. And to top it off someone has posted up in the classified section a sweet lifted GL in Southern Oregon that looks amazing and is very tempting. Thanks for the input in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I have the push button 4wd and it is limited to its capability as a 4wd vehicle. YOu may only need 4low in your one time in owning the vehicle but it will be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 what advice are you looking for? thoughts on different vehicles, old school verses Legacy's, or different transmissions/engines? there's one key in all this - don't end up with an EA82T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) Get one with the low range 4wd. That's really the defining benefit of the EA82 wagons over, say, an old impreza. Other than the low range advantage (which I really miss whenever I take my Justy or a Legacy up alot of dirt two track roads), they have less power, and the EA82 engines are not quite as good as the early EJ engines (I've had many of them with over 200k miles... so they are still good if they've been taken care of, but many have been neglected and over heated). Also, if you're used to the legacies, you'll find that the EA82 wagons are smaller and lighter -- I drove GL wagons for years, and now a Justy, and whenver I drive even a first gen legacy, it feels kind of like driving a bit boat. The more powerful EJ engine more than makes up for the weight, but I still like the smaller size for going zipping around dirt roads, or even just easy parking in town. Edited June 26, 2009 by zyewdall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgefgd Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Thanks for the thoughts guys. I only had to look at a few threads to know that the EA82T would be a bad idea. -grossgary- In my mind I've got in narrowed down between a GL wagon and a Loyale. Just wanted to tap into the collective knowledge of the message board on the thoughts of one over the other. No matter what I get, lurking around here has made me want to do all kinds of mods. haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The GL is more luxo then the Loyales are. As i said before, i would get the GL for the low range alone. See if you can find a GL-10 or even a touring wagon. There even more luxo then the standard GL. And make for dam sure its a 5 speed not an automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiffy Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 GL all the way... I've only owned one loyale and I won't do it again... all the little creature comforts were removed from the loyale... so get a GL with a 5 speed and dual-range tranny... make sure it doesn't have any cooling/overheating problems or clicking axles when you turn sharp... oh, and '87 or newer with fuel injection, unless you want a carburetor for some reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 thats 88 or newer for FI:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiffy Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 thats 88 or newer for FI:) you know, I knew when I typed that I might be a year off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 GL all the way... I've only owned one loyale and I won't do it again... all the little creature comforts were removed from the loyale... Lol yea, what car doesn't even have a cup holder? I guess passengers are good for something :-p But seriously, how many comforts do ya need? It has heat, auto windows, a motor and 4wheels! -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 you know, I knew when I typed that I might be a year off... I had an '87 GL wagon that was fuel injected. Then introduced it a year earlier in California... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Personally, I wouldn't go backward to an EA series from a Legacy. You will be dissapointed. Best bang for your buck is a 93 or 94 Gen 1 Legacy with the EJ22 and a 5 speed AWD. Better reliability for your money you won't find. And you deffinately won't find it in an EA82. A low mileage, well maintained EA81 might give one a run, but not an EA82. If you are going to go old-school stick with the EA81's (1984 and older). The EA82's are 5 speed D/R donor's for the real old-school Subaru's. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) Personally, I wouldn't go backward to an EA series from a Legacy. You will be dissapointed. Best bang for your buck is a 93 or 94 Gen 1 Legacy with the EJ22 and a 5 speed AWD. Better reliability for your money you won't find. And you deffinately won't find it in an EA82. A low mileage, well maintained EA81 might give one a run, but not an EA82. If you are going to go old-school stick with the EA81's (1984 and older). The EA82's are 5 speed D/R donor's for the real old-school Subaru's. GD GD, can I ask why you have something agaist the EA82s sooo much? Just wondering. I mean they arn't as bad as some of the things you say, I own one its a DD and it has 104,439 miles on it. It has NEVER left me on the side of the road nor has ever NOT started.. It always runs as long as you check a few things once in a great moon (Timing belts) but still mine had the orignal belts from '92 and they were extramly cracked and I drove it for a year or two before changing them july '07 (And yes I do drive the engine a little hard most of the time) but those belts never failed and I dout this ones will either. Yes the EA82 3ATs are a little slow but still are pretty quick. I havn't really had any complaints about the EA82 line. The upside to older gen Soobs are, They are amazing in deeeep snow (I went thru 3ft like butter last year with 13" wheels) I believe the 4WDs are better in some ways then the AWDs, and the EJs tend to have HG issues a bit more then the EAs. Everyone has an opinion and thats good, where would we be without one Just my $0.02 -Tom Edited June 26, 2009 by TheLoyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 GD, can I ask why you have something agaist the EA82s sooo much? Just wondering. I undestand where you are comming from, and the only thing I can tell you is - when you own a few more and have had some time and mileage on them you will understand. The EA82 isn't bad as a *car*, but it is bad as a *Subaru*. What I mean is - compared to what came before it and after it, they are not at the same level of superior design. The EA81 was the pinnicle of EA series design - when they broke from pushrods with that engine design they broke the design in a fundamental way and unfortunately it never got fixed. They won again with the EJ series but it took years to design and computers to assist them. The original EA design - taken from the German Lloyd - was not improved in any significant way by the modifications done to it to create the EA82. The basic EA81 design has been shown viable to 200+ HP and reliable enough for aircraft at that output level. The EA82 has never acheived anything close and no one in their right mind would drop one in an aircraft. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) I undestand where you are comming from, and the only thing I can tell you is - when you own a few more and have had some time and mileage on them you will understand. The EA82 isn't bad as a *car*, but it is bad as a *Subaru*. What I mean is - compared to what came before it and after it, they are not at the same level of superior design. The EA81 was the pinnicle of EA series design - when they broke from pushrods with that engine design they broke the design in a fundamental way and unfortunately it never got fixed. They won again with the EJ series but it took years to design and computers to assist them. The original EA design - taken from the German Lloyd - was not improved in any significant way by the modifications done to it to create the EA82. The basic EA81 design has been shown viable to 200+ HP and reliable enough for aircraft at that output level. The EA82 has never acheived anything close and no one in their right mind would drop one in an aircraft. GD Oh I see, yes the EA81s are very good and so are the EJs. I wonder why they did change the EA82 in alot of ways to a less evolved? Like why go from internal timing gearing to belts? and like you said, the pushrods from the 81 was not continued to the 82. Why? Just some things I wonder "Why" anyhoo, to me the worst Subaru would be the Justy. one it doen't even run a Flat style engine (inline 3) and two it has a CVT and heres that word again "WHY?" I understand that the CVT is probley alot shorter/lighter then any of the other trannys Subaru used, but why not run a Flat-4? Thank you for inlighting me Have a great weekend! -Tom Edited June 27, 2009 by TheLoyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Oh I see, yes the EA81s are very good and so are the EJs. I wonder why they did change the EA82 in alot of ways to a less evolved? Like why go from internal timing gearing to belts? and like you said, the pushrods from the 81 was not continued to the 82. Why? Just some things I wonder "Why" There are good reasons to do some of these things, but they were not well implemented with the EA82. anyhoo, to me the worst Subaru would be the Justy. one it doen't even run a Flat style engine (inline 3) and two it has a CVT and heres that word again "WHY?" I understand that the CVT is probley alot shorter/lighter then any of the other trannys Subaru used, but why not run a Flat-4? The Justy engine is an excelent design - it does have a weak oil pump but other than that it's not bad at all. It's a 9 valve engine and has amazing performance for it's small size. The same performance as an EA71 (1.6) from a 1.2 liter. And the CVT was bad, but many, many Justy's were built with 5 speed's in both 2WD and 4WD. Subaru built a Justy for Bonneville with 120 HP.... from a 1.0 liter. You have to appreciate the Justy for what it was - an inexpensive, highly economical compact. Can you point out any other compacts with available 4WD and the ability to get 40 MPG or more? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I agree with GD on the Justy.. I have owned one ( FWD 5 spd) and it was awesome. Great little car..if I would have known then what I do now I would never have junked it when we believed a bearing was going in the motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Hmm yes, I suppose looking at the possitive things about the Justy are excellent points. I really didn't know the engine had that much performance to match the 1.6 EA71! And shocked SUBARU built one for Bonnevile with 120HP 1.0 Wow! any idea on the time and/or top speed? I'll look it up on Wiki. I guess their should be something said for the Justy, the only vehicle from the same era that was a compact with 2WD or 4WD was the Yugo (Which was also a pretty decent vehicle in engineering and technology) I am still shocked at the Bonnevile idea! -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Anyone here know much about the JDM only Pleo? Damn, I'm kinda stealing this thread. Very sorry George. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) Here's a spot about the Justy LSR. http://jalopnik.com/252682/super-salty-123-mph-subaru-justy The HP is variously reported - they claim 99 in that bit but on the article we used to have posted on the "main" USMB page it was stated as 120..... at 11,900 RPM IIRC. 40mm Mikuni's and a hot cam. They claim it even would idle.... barely. It ran up around 125 MPH. Held the land speed reccord for the 1.0 liter class for a very long time. GD Edited June 27, 2009 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) Here's a spot about the Justy LSR. http://jalopnik.com/252682/super-salty-123-mph-subaru-justy The HP is variously reported - they claim 99 in that bit but on the article we used to have posted on the "main" USMB page it was stated as 120..... at 11,900 RPM IIRC. 40mm Mikuni's and a hot cam. They claim it even would idle.... barely. It ran up around 125 MPH. Held the land speed reccord for the 1.0 liter class for a very long time. GD Huh, thats cool. Wow 11,900RPM! What is it, a Honda :-p Thank you for the link, would barely idel (Wonder how big of a displacment it had? I'll read link ) -Tom EDIT: Wow record stood for 18 years cool. Oh so they downgraded the U.S 1.2 with the JDM 1.0 Crank and Rods to meet the 1000cc limit. Thanks for showing me this! Edited June 27, 2009 by TheLoyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 The Justy engine is an excelent design - it does have a weak oil pump but other than that it's not bad at all. It's a 9 valve engine and has amazing performance for it's small size. The same performance as an EA71 (1.6) from a 1.2 liter. And the CVT was bad, but many, many Justy's were built with 5 speed's in both 2WD and 4WD. Subaru built a Justy for Bonneville with 120 HP.... from a 1.0 liter. You have to appreciate the Justy for what it was - an inexpensive, highly economical compact. Can you point out any other compacts with available 4WD and the ability to get 40 MPG or more? GD I think my FI Justy is actually rated the same horsepower as a carbed EA81 -- 75HP. In a lighter car. It's pretty zippy for an economy car, plus it handles quite well. And you can still drive through snowdrifts with it. Engine design could best be described as bizarre... but it seems to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Personally, I wouldn't go backward to an EA series from a Legacy. You will be dissapointed. Best bang for your buck is a 93 or 94 Gen 1 Legacy with the EJ22 and a 5 speed AWD. Better reliability for your money you won't find. And you deffinately won't find it in an EA82. A low mileage, well maintained EA81 might give one a run, but not an EA82. If you are going to go old-school stick with the EA81's (1984 and older). The EA82's are 5 speed D/R donor's for the real old-school Subaru's. GD I'd have to agree with GD for the most part. I've owned lots of EA82's as daily drivers, and I still like them... but they are getting older, and harder to find good ones that haven't been worn out or beat up. The '93 and '94 legacies is usually what I recommend to people for a cheap reliable daily driver now. The exception is that for off-roading, the legacy is just too heavy for its suspension and tires, and doesn't have low range. So you have to mod it a bit to off-road it. A stock EA is not too bad, and they are more given to modding too. I'm going back to an EA81 for that (with an EJ22 engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgefgd Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 Thanks again for all the input. Tom, don't worry about the thread hijack. That's some pretty interesting stuff. It looks like I'm going to have to drive a few cars to see what I like best. I'm in no hurry. A few things that concern me about the EA81 cars is that they seem to be very common in 4 speed manuals (I'm sure there's a thread out there about upgrading to 5spd) and just general interior condition of a car that old. I looked at one a while back that was in good shape and cheap. Probably should have picked it up then. GD, I see you're in Portland too. Do you have any good spots to look for Subarus outside of craigslist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 A few things that concern me about the EA81 cars is that they seem to be very common in 4 speed manuals (I'm sure there's a thread out there about upgrading to 5spd) All the 4WD manual's were 4 speed's in the EA81 era. It really doesn't make any difference from a regular driving perspective as they are ultimately geared the same on the top end. There's a lot of reasons to prefer the 5 speed, but I drive a 4 speed daily right now and it's no big deal. The conversion is straightforward - there's a member here that makes a custom transmission cross-member that will bolt it up to the body and then the only issue is changing in the driveline. I have one in my Brat and it works great. and just general interior condition of a car that old.I looked at one a while back that was in good shape and cheap. Probably should have picked it up then. Yeah - you may have to look at a few before you find one in decent shape. GD, I see you're in Portland too. Do you have any good spots to look for Subarus outside of craigslist? The LKQ wrecking yards often have "runners" for sale that only need minor repairs to be driveable. There's an 88 GL, 5 speed D/R at the Sherwood yard right now for $550. I'm not one to reccomend an EA82, but it would be an great deal to throw an EA81 in (bolts right up and the car is already setup for fuel injection), or do an EJ22 conversion. Other than that, craigslist is your best bet by far. The last couple deals I've got on there have been great. I bought a '94 Legacy GT (5 speed, raised roof touring model) wagon for $750 from a little old lady - needed a water pump so I did a full timing belt and water pump job on it to the tune of about $200 and a weekend of work. Drove it for another 12,000 without a single issue - drove to Reno and back three times in it. Great deal. More recently (since I'm known as a Subaru nut around here), I was given a '93 Legacy wagon with a bad alternator - $130 later I drove it home. Replaced a damaged fender and door and gave it to my mother. I'm probably into that car about $300 total. She loves it. There's deals out there - just wait and one will happen for you. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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