logang1k Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I had just left my place and shifted into 2nd and I loss power and coasted off of the road. We towed it home and started checking things. It is getting fuel, spark and the timing belts are good. I checked the fuses and the links, they both looked good but I have never checked the links before. It has new plugs, wires, rotor, cap, air and fuel filter. When i give it gas it turns over faster but won't start. any ideas? It has the stock motor ea82 spfi 4wd 5mt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Check the rotor. May be loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Probally timeing belt. Happens alot, when you replace it get the kit with the tensioners as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Either the screw fell out of the rotor, or one of your belts snapped. If you have fuel and spark, then you have improper valve or ignition timing. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang1k Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Rotor is tight and turns when you try to start it. the timing belts move when you try to start it. guess it jumped time maybe? Edited August 30, 2009 by logang1k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Are you SURE you have fuel? Dump a little in the throttle body with the intake snorkus removed and see if it kicks over a bit. You might have a dodgy fuel pump, fuel pump relay, or? You need air, fuel, and spark. It should at least *try* to start if you have those and the timing hasn't changed. How are you determining that the belts are unbroken? Sometimes a few teeth can strip off the belts and cause the cam gear to slide on the belt - pull the outer covers if you haven't already and roll the engine over by hand inspecting the belt teeth as you go. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang1k Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 I pulled the two covers off and watched the belts turn but I didn't look any farther after i saw them moving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang1k Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 After a month of sitting I tried to start it again. I started kinda but would only run if I gave it a lot of gas. Are there any sensors that commonly go out that I need to check? I probably just need to get a timing light and learn how to check the timing. I need this tank going when the snow gets here. Anyone in southern indiana that would want to help check the timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Try spraying some starter fluid into the intake and see if that makes the engine ok for a bit. If that works then try changing the fuel filter. If that doesn't help then you may need to change the pump out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang1k Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 I took it to a local shop that has three mechanics that used to work for Subaru and they got it running but it is only hitting on 3 cylinders. I assume this is a big problem so I told them not to go any farther. They say I can drive it home. Is this worth fixing or should I say ************ it and do the ej swap now? Also can someone link me to a comprehensive list of what I need to get from the donor car? Numbchux says he has no problem doing the wiring for a 90-01 ej. I would really like to have a newer ej25 because I have a buddy that opensource tunes and it needs to be obd2 for his tuning. I bought this car to tinker with in the mud and off-road and just be a general beater/commuter to keep miles (and dents) off of my wrx while I am going to school in Louisville. About how much is a complete swap? I kind of want to get the dual range tranny for the ej motor. Would it be better to hunt down an ea82 d/r or get an ej d/r shipped in? Actually the more I think about it I should just try to fix the ea82 motor and get this car on the road before winter so the crazies in Louisville don’t take out my wrx and I am really broke right now because of school. But I would still like this information for future reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Dude. Firstly make ur mind up on what to do. If you do decide to fix the ea your self thats great. First thing to do is check the plug and lead from the cylinder thats not firing. The easiest way to do this without any special equipment is to try swapping leads or plugs around untill you pin down the supect part. There are a lot of really cool and knowledgable people on this site who will help get you back on the road but you are gonna have to meet them half way. This means getting pro-active about the situation. Do some home work on what you are looking at. Google a few basic parts and get a basic understanding of you are looking at. Start testing all the basic functions of the engine and then come back here with the details of what you are seeing Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang1k Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Well I think I need to sit down and talk to the guys at the shop and see if they have an idea of what's wrong with the car. Because right now at this point in my life I just want a super reliable car that gets good mpg. My wrx as a ton of work done to it and it isn't the most reliable or the most fuel efficient. 20mpg, 80 mile commute to school and 93 octane. I want to put as little as possible into the loyale because I want to put a bigger turbo and some other odd and ends on my wrx. I may even retire the wrx from street duty and make it a weekend cruiser. I just don’t want to spend 500-1000 fixing the motor and then swap it out in 2 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I totally understand that man. But it doesn't cost anything to simply check things over. Find yourself a haynes manual or chiltons or what ever and start checking the obvious. plus if its only a plug or a lead failing you could be back on the road for less than 20 bucks. The way I see it is if its already running on 3 cylinders, there can't be much wrong with it. Your gonna be up to your eyeballs in far bigger mysteries when you do the ej swap so you may as well get familiar with the basics now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Checking the compression of the bad cylinder and comparing it to the rest of the good ones will tell you a lot real quick on what needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang1k Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 The shop did a compression test and the bad cylinder was down on compression. I think they assumed it was a stuck valve but they said they would have to open it up to see. It is still at the shop I told them to stop if it was the motor because I was gonna swap it. But I really don't have the money for the swap right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo'J Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) I'm pretty sure you can get it going again, free up that cylinder and get fair mileage. Heck an ea82 from the jy is cheap and only takes 2 intake and 2 exhaust gaskets and your time. There is a tone of backyard mech stuff you can do cheap like seafoam, atf and starting fluid to get you started on your way. It just takes your effort, some tools a manual and the usmb:)! I've been running a bad cylinder in my ea81 for a year and a half now and still getting 20 to 26mpg on a lifted wagon (motor swap coming along soon). I'm no mech but you can do it on these cars. The most modern still isnt an owie (audi) with a $300fuel pump in two locations buried miles under interior trim. If I can do head gaskets, and still burn oatmeal, all by myself, so can you. Just watch the oatmeal. Edited November 26, 2009 by Yo'J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 if you want to go ej and all that is involvesd, understanding an ea82 timing belt is simple in comparison unless you know the maintenance history on your ea82, i would second general disorder's idea of the belt losing some teeth. that happened to me and fooled me once. car qiot as if it had a broken belt. belt was intact. had someone turn the starter while i watched, belt did not move!if get a haynes book or look up the timing belt articel here on usmb, and go through the motions. that will at least tell you the belt jumped dont let the shop tell you you have bent valves or bad heads since that is commonly misdiagnosed by mechanics that are not familiar with subarus if you are going to spend 500-1000 bucks at your car, throw only a small percentage at me and i will drive out there and get your car running by poking a stick at it. better ax somebody! really, if you would be serious....milesfox@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 One thing that makes me think the trouble isn't due to a slipped timing belt is the compression should be low on both of the effected cylinders, not just one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoung Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Need to get a Noid light and see if the injector is getting a signal from the cpu..........if it is than check the injector with an olm meter to see if its any good!!:Flame::Flame: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale93v Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) Need to get a Noid light and see if the injector is getting a signal from the cpu..........if it is than check the injector with an olm meter to see if its any good!!:Flame::Flame: I am trying to be a mechanic from 8-5 daily. My advice... get spark tester ($1.87 @ harbor freight) and test all leads and plugs. Check for signs of damaged,frayed or split wires and boots. Some times it helps to do this in the dark to see if any spark is arching out to the block. If they all got spark then it is ruled out. Check cap and rotor for signs of carbon tracking and damage. Fuel. Pull the fuel line inbetween fuel filter and TB. Have someone turn it over. did you get sprayed with fuel?(then that is ruled out.) Noid light on injector. Is it getting cpu/pcm signal? If yes then that is ruled out and you can move on. OHM meter(Digital multi-meter $20 or less @ HB or parts store for cheapo version) check ohm's on injector to see if operational. could also perform test to check injector pulse width with right diag tools. IF everything checks out at that point...timing light I think the spec on these EA82"s is 20 degrees BTDC. If that checks out...compression test-dry. record psi readings on cold engine with fuel and spark disabled. 4 cranks on each cylinder tested(4 cranks is one full engine rotation) on low compression cylinders, if any, repeat test with a tsp of motor oil. if psi rises significantly you may have a piston ring problem. If no psi increase, perform cylinder leak down test to determine if intake valves or exhaust valves are to blame. Now then...if after all that, everything check out and is up to spec...start looking at a serious vacuum leak. These engines are sensitive to vac leaks. Oh, BTW, you could also of checked fuel psi and fuel volume with a fuel gage during fuel check. IF after that...you still haven't figured out where the misfire is originating from...you missed it and you should start all over again repeating every step. That's just what I might do. Edited November 29, 2009 by Loyale93v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logang1k Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 I finally went and got my car back from the shop. Here is their official write up: Test compression...#2 cylinder has low compression, blows air out of the tail pipe...Exhaust Valve problem All plugs are fouled...Has good Spark...Belt timing is good...Ignition timing is off. Clean plugs. Remove distributor and reset properly. Set timing...Misses on cylinder #2 due to low compression. My dad insisted that I put zmax in it because the commercial says it can unstick stuck valves. So that is all I have done to it so far. It runs ok but it is a little down on power obviously. Is it ok to drive it like this and see if the valve frees up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale93v Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I finally went and got my car back from the shop. Here is their official write up:Test compression...#2 cylinder has low compression, blows air out of the tail pipe...Exhaust Valve problem All plugs are fouled...Has good Spark...Belt timing is good...Ignition timing is off. Clean plugs. Remove distributor and reset properly. Set timing...Misses on cylinder #2 due to low compression. My dad insisted that I put zmax in it because the commercial says it can unstick stuck valves. So that is all I have done to it so far. It runs ok but it is a little down on power obviously. Is it ok to drive it like this and see if the valve frees up? I am a fan of "sea foam" personally. follow the directions. 1/3 in fuel tank, 1/3 in oil , and 1/3 down the throat of th TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Dude ... dud you ever check the timing difinitively? Last year, when my '90 Loyale snapped a belt, I ended up pulling the heads & rebuilding them because I was getting the same problem (bad compression) when I put it back together the way I thought it was supposed to be ... and it turns out I DIDN'T HAVE TO! This really sounds like a timing problem. I'll see if i can find the thread ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Here ya go, man ... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=90698 I gotta throw-in with "off a tooth". Sometimes, the simplest answer is the correct one. If you have crappy running, reduced compression, and fouled plug ... You're sounding like me: "Screw it - let's replace the motor!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 if your ign timing is off, then you must have slipped a belt. the other cam would be out of phase explaining the open valve on the compression stroke go through the motions in the timing belt article. it will save me the breath to explain it now, because i wrote the article. the idea is that the article is simple to follow, it has saved many a headache for people tackling the timing belts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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