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why didn't you tell me?


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21 replies to this topic

#1 LokeDawgg

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:19 PM

I've been shifting at 2500 rpm... my mechanic and a wrecker recently told me I should be shifting at 3500-4000 otherwise I'm bending valves. Is this the case and if so, why didn't you tell me? I've been carrying on here about saving gas... and you just payed out the rope and let me hang. Now I might need a rebuild (lost power in first over the last few months shifting wrong). Thanks alot! :-p :banghead:

#2 nipper

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:39 PM

Well there are a few thoughts on this.

You are both correct.

As long as you are not lugging the engine things are ok, but it is not the valves that take the beating it is the bottom end.

Have you tried skip shifting? Skipping a gear like 2-4 or 3-5?

Valves are not the issue. Something else is and it has nothing to do with the shifting... what exactly is happening that you are loosing power ?

#3 LokeDawgg

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:53 PM

Well there are a few thoughts on this.

You are both correct.

As long as you are not lugging the engine things are ok, but it is not the valves that take the beating it is the bottom end.

Have you tried skip shifting? Skipping a gear like 2-4 or 3-5?

Valves are not the issue. Something else is and it has nothing to do with the shifting... what exactly is happening that you are loosing power ?


When you say "lugging the engine," I take it you mean letting the needle drop a thousand or so rpm and then revving back up shifting into a new gear, instead of applying more gas and keeping the needle stationary. Yeah, I've been doing that, and I've been corrected.

Alright, when you say "bottom end" I think cams and pistons, maybe clutch.

What would be the purpose of skip shifting? I mean, over revving in one gear say to 5000 or 5500 rpm then skipping a gear? Seems like it would be pretty hard on the engine for regular use.

You know, it's funny when I first got my sube I was shifting at 3500 but people on the road were looking at me like I was crazy or trying to show off or something... the 2.5 growl is intimidating to some folk I guess.

Maybe I just need to seafoam the thing and replace filters and plugs, etc. I don't know, my mechanic took her around the block and told me that it didn't have the power it should. It's no slouch though. I don't know.

#4 nipper

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:09 AM

Ok we need to start from square one. Forget everything and drive normally.

Luging the engine is when you are in too high a gear for too low a speed. The car will fight you and the engine will not respond immediatly, it will complain and maybe stall.


Bottom end is main and connecting rod bearings. Top end is valves and cam

The way to get better gas mileage is to get into the highest gear as soon as possible, ONLY once you understand how to drive a stick.

I hate to say this, but you need how to learn to drive a stick, it is much more then just getting the car to start from a stop. You can damage the car without properly learning. Generally about 15mph per gear is ideal (hard to explain without actually being in the car with you).

And yes a tuneup is in order plugs, wires, air, fuel filters and PCV valve.


http://www.cartalk.c...n-drive-stick-3

Please dont take this as nasty, I know comments can be taken either way and i am not being that way. :)

#5 LokeDawgg

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:25 AM

Ok we need to start from square one. Forget everything and drive normally.

Luging the engine is when you are in too high a gear for too low a speed. The car will fight you and the engine will not respond immediatly, it will complain and maybe stall.


Bottom end is main and connecting rod bearings. Top end is valves and cam

The way to get better gas mileage is to get into the highest gear as soon as possible, ONLY once you understand how to drive a stick.

I hate to say this, but you need how to learn to drive a stick, it is much more then just getting the car to start from a stop. You can damage the car without properly learning. Generally about 15mph per gear is ideal (hard to explain without actually being in the car with you).

And yes a tuneup is in order plugs, wires, air, fuel filters and PCV valve.


http://www.cartalk.c...n-drive-stick-3

Please dont take this as nasty, I know comments can be taken either way and i am not being that way. :)


Not at all nip. You know, the way I learned to drive stick was this: I was working a construction job and my foreman (who knew I didn't know how to drive manual) left me at a different job site with a company truck and said "see you there" :lol: Well, I got to the other site, but perhaps lacking a bit of finesse. He said "now you know how to drive a stick" and I took it to heart, never bothered to ask anyone if I was doing something wrong. Drove beater trucks around for years without a problem, but a sube is something a bit different and I'd like to treat her right.

#6 nipper

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:52 AM

Here is an idea. Find a dirvers training school. Tell them you just need one class on how to drive a stick, as you have starting from a dead stop down pat . Where are you located

#7 LokeDawgg

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:28 AM

Here is an idea. Find a dirvers training school. Tell them you just need one class on how to drive a stick, as you have starting from a dead stop down pat . Where are you located


Just drove around the block with a friend who rebuilds transmissions for a living, I told him how I'd been driving recently (since the wrecker and mechanic told me to shift at 3500) and he said those guys were idiots and the way to drive was common sense, just don't put excess wear on the parts. I was shifting smoothly before the bad advice, second guessed myself for a minute. Crap.

Edited by LokeDawgg, 04 April 2012 - 02:11 AM.


#8 nipper

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:16 AM

Change your plugs maybe you fouled them.

#9 edrach

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:21 AM

Your friends are full of it. Large bore cars (much bigger than our EA81, 82, EJ18, 22, and 25) with sticks like to run at low rpm; our cars like to "breathe" and shifting at 3000 to 3500 is pretty normal. Plus you won't hurt the engine if you let it run up to 6000 rpm now and then. Running at low rpm (below 2000) can actually hurt our car's engines.

#10 nipper

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:45 AM

Large bore cars by thier internal mechanics (physics) and mass do run at lower rpms and produce lots more torque at lower RPMs so they like to rev lower. Key here is torque. More torque you have lower revs you can run because you have more pull available.

#11 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:24 PM

I shift Ned at 4K+ every time... unless Im conserving gas, then I shift at about 3000 (just when the needle passes 3)

I forgot once when I was spiritly driving and shifted at almost 8K... seems to still run great :burnout:

#12 Subruise

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 05:07 PM

before super smoky tandem hg explosion ended my fun, my 91 loyale wag regularly saw 7200 rpm shifts. not so much as cracked valve seats. low shifting will hurt stuff, the motor is basically fighting itself. let that thing sing man, its what theyre for.


RV

#13 LokeDawgg

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:08 PM

Interesting, my friend (the transmission guy) owns a dodge truck currently, so it would make sense for him to shift lower with a large bore engine like that, he's also got a shift light that tells him when to shift -- factory recommended time to change gears: least wear, most torque, best mileage... sweet spot.

I wonder if there's a spec for subarus, been looking, but all I turn up is more threads like this one. I don't have the time or money or inclination at the moment to graph this out obd2/laptop, blah blah blah. Doesn't seem necessary, I'm not running any engine mods. Anyone know? Surely there's a recommendation from the source....

#14 grossgary

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:29 PM

this isn't rocket science. shift however is appropriate for your needs and don't lug the engine. if you need to know what lugging the engine is, ask your friend or someone else. there is no precise RPM because it's going to vary based on weight of car, weight of driver and contents, tire rubber compounds, tire pressure, wheel bearing grease, grade of the road, ambient temperature, octane of gas, altitude, running condition of motor, when you're accelerating, shifting....etc...

- just don't lug the engine.

someone could probably say something like don't let rpm's get below 2,000 rpm in gear or something like that...i'm just making up that number though it may be relatively close.

#15 LokeDawgg

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:30 PM

...and call me uppity but I don't want to be grinding off teeth trying to rev match (guessing) zzz

So, any takers on this?

#16 LokeDawgg

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:40 PM

this isn't rocket science. shift however is appropriate for your needs and don't lug the engine. if you need to know what lugging the engine is, ask your friend or someone else. there is no precise RPM because it's going to vary based on weight of car, weight of driver and contents, tire rubber compounds, tire pressure, wheel bearing grease, grade of the road, ambient temperature, octane of gas, altitude, running condition of motor, when you're accelerating, shifting....etc...

- just don't lug the engine.

someone could probably say something like don't let rpm's get below 2,000 rpm in gear or something like that...i'm just making up that number though it may be relatively close.


I've seen about a couple hundred posts on this subject subaru specific, most recommendations falling between 2000-4000 rpm, that's a pretty wide range and it's all anecdotal but it's still a reference. Maybe I've been searching for the last word on it in vain :banghead:

#17 LokeDawgg

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:52 PM

Your friends are full of it. Large bore cars (much bigger than our EA81, 82, EJ18, 22, and 25) with sticks like to run at low rpm; our cars like to "breathe" and shifting at 3000 to 3500 is pretty normal. Plus you won't hurt the engine if you let it run up to 6000 rpm now and then. Running at low rpm (below 2000) can actually hurt our car's engines.


edrach, thanks for the input. This being a Subaru board and the combined experience here, I put more stock in y'alls answers than somebody who thinks American steel is made in America :lol:

#18 grossgary

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:00 AM

Maybe I've been searching for the last word on it in vain :banghead:

too many variables for a one-size fits all statement. if you're terrified - shift on the higher end, you won't hurt anything, just don't lug it.

if you want to quantify it you'll need a differential equation that includes all the interrelated variables and more outlined above. :drunk:

there are probably 132 things that are going to cause you to part with the vehicle before shifting RPM does, it's way low on the list.

#19 AKghandi

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:22 PM

The owner manual gives specs for when your suposed to shift. Mine says to shift from 1st at 29mph the from second at 48 from 3rd at 72 and 4th at 88
Those are the specs for fASt accelertion in a 87gl10 turbo
normal driving is as follows 22,37,53,77

as you can see these motors are much happier at high revs.

#20 crisco

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

shifting higher is more fun too... drive it like a truck.

#21 nipper

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

shifting higher is more fun too... drive it like a truck.



all that shifting in a 1200 rpm range can get awfully exhausting if your talking diesel.

#22 wentz912

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:17 AM

shifting higher is more fun too... drive it like a truck.


I don't know what trucks you drive, but my Toyota falls flat on it's face past 3500, and redlines at 4500, so it gets shifted just after 3k.




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