old sub freak Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Ok guys One last thought..Now if you were lookin at a sideview that was "cutaway...the axel going north and south.You could see the flat washer pushing down on the cone washer holding everything tight.Now if the cone washer is too thin the flat washer will "bottom out" against the hub and leaving the cone washer uncompressed.Now if the flat washer was a hair smaller it would push the cone down enough to hold the tourqe setting....Right??? Does this make sence? I too have used many used cone washers and did ok only because the cone was thick enough to make contact with the flat washer and then making a good fit with the hub...so I hope that clears everything up HAHA..Boy i'm so glad we are all friends,hate to think where this could go among enemy's !!!: ok.ok one more though...Now if you filed the flat washer so it was "coned" some it could be pushed against the real cone washer and not bottom out on the hub, thus holdin it all together.. Happy Trails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Meh, I'm not gonna bother with filing it down or anything. I'm just gonna spend the money and get brand new cone washers. My current ones are in pretty bad shape, and I believe that it doesn't matter what I'd do. For me, it's worth buying new ones. Besides dealing with the dealership, it's a lot less effort to just take the washer out of the box (or whatever it comes in) and put it on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Meh, I'm not gonna bother with filing it down or anything. I'm just gonna spend the money and get brand new cone washers. My current ones are in pretty bad shape, and I believe that it doesn't matter what I'd do. For me, it's worth buying new ones. Besides dealing with the dealership, it's a lot less effort to just take the washer out of the box (or whatever it comes in) and put it on the car. And so long as you don't have to replace 62 and a half cone washers, you'll never be out $1k Good luck with the repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sub freak Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Ok guys.I was just working on my daughters 84 wagons breaks and i had to remove the now famous cone washer and guess what ???I'm full of s#%&.So once I have seen a cone washer worn so bad it was like I discribed above. So scratch all I said about that...OK .....Slowly now...Open Mouth....Insert Foot...Mupf netum womfnut.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Getting a half of a cone washer is VERY difficult. The dealership never has one in stock. I might buy many over my lifetime, but if it's stretched out over 40-50 years, it won't bother me much, haha. Hahaha, if a cone washer is just starting to fail, I can see how filing/grinding would work. But if it's really worn, there's no hope. You gotta get a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Yeah, again, sorry for the long post. Just to finish this post off, I will post some pictures of what I saw at the dealership today. This is a perfect condition, inside and out, second generation Brat. Bit off topic here but i looked the Brat up and while a "Please Call" for price was listed they had a very similar '83 listed for 10k!! Just me or are Brat prices getting crazy? Had a guy come to my door this summer and offer 3.5k for my '85, as is, didn't even want to test drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Okay, well, I was unable to go to the Pick-N-Pull today to grab a hub. I had work, and I guess because it gets dark earlier, the Pick-N-Pull closes earlier. And the thing is, I won't be able to go to the Pick-N-Pull until Friday.... Would I do any harm if I put the new cone washers on my car (which I should have tomorrow, hopefully) and try and drive without a new hub? Would it even drive, or would it do the same thing and just grind? I still haven't got a really good look at it, but I don't think my hub is worn too bad. It's not like this happened on the freeway and axle was spinning in the hub at 60 MPH. It happened in a parking lot. I was at a stop, and then I tried moving 5-6 times, revving no more than 1800 RPM or so, and only for a few seconds each time. and then from there, I haven't tried moving the car at all. Had it towed home. So it can't be worn down too bad. Brats are getting pricey. But it's understandable. I would LOVE to have one, in good condition or not. A Loyale or a GL is not quite as popular as a Brat. Heck, I'd love to just drive one for an hour, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOONGA Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 If it was doing it with the old cone washer then all you will do is destroy the new cone washer. I would say your splines are stuffed in the hub. but with out seeing the hub off the car it is hard to tell. TOONGA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I would file the shelf off of the bad cone washer and use that instead. I am firmly in the camp of using new cone washers instead of trying to fix bad ones, but it sounds like your replaceing the hub anyway and just trying to get an extra week out of what you have. file the ridge off and put it back together, see if you can get it tight enough to hold, then take it easy till you can get to PnP this week. use the new hardware with a good hub as soon as you can. This isnt a very "safe" option, but we have all had to limp cars. take your time and go slow, check it often, etc, to make sure there are no issues along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Okay, but I should just wait and get some hubs? Again, I have no need to limp my car. I have another car that can take me to/from school/work this week. I can just leave my Loyale parked until I get it fixed. I can go ahead and take the hubs off my car, and take some pictures, and you can tell me what your opinion is on what I should do. I miss driving my Loyale, but I'm fine waiting until Friday if it's the safest thing for me to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Okay, went outside and took the driver's side hub off of my car. It's nighttime and raining, so I decided not to bother with the passenger side, but I think they're probably about the same. Anyways, so yeah, it's not looking good. The inside of the hub is smooth. So it looks like it needs a replacement. Again, I'm assuming the passenger side is probably the same. The cone washer looked about the same amount of wear, and it came out just as easily as the driver side. So I guess I need two hubs. Not a big deal, but I gotta wait until Friday then. Man, this is like a two week ordeal. Also, on a side note, I couldn't help but notice my brake rotor is dirty. It's like someone vomited all over my brake rotor. Hahaha, no, but this is weird. It looks like mud or something, but 1) I haven't gone offroading, or gotten the car dirty in quite a long time, and 2) as you can see, the rotor is the only thing affected by this. Everything else is clean (well, cleaner... :-p ). Any ideas? Edited October 29, 2012 by jj421 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 might want to double check that the brakes are working on that side, that might be buildup that normally would get scuffed off during braking. or it could just be from a mud puddle as you were parking it. is that a crack in the caliper I see at the bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'm pretty sure the brakes are working. A few days before I had this issue, I went to a parking lot when it was pouring rain and practiced locking up my wheels. After that, and a close call on the road that caused me to lock up my wheels, I'd say the brakes on that side are working fine, since both front wheels locked up in every instance. Plus, it's not like the car pulls to one side when braking. Well, unless I'm under heavy braking, but every car I've driven pulls to one side under heavy braking. I'm just thinking it's dirt that's built up over the week it has been sitting. I'm sure once I get it driving again it'll go away. Is that a crack? I didn't take a look at it when I had the wheel off (and have since put it back on), so I don't know and can't just go check real fast. I should check before I go to the Pick-N-Pull, because if I need a new caliper or two, I can just get them while I'm there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 That line looks more like a casting mark than a crack. Flash from camera just inhances it more at that angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 That line looks more like a casting mark than a crack.Flash from camera just inhances it more at that angle. Yup, that's what I was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just a quick update, if anyone is at all interested. Yesterday, Monday, I didn't get a call from the dealership. So I stopped by this morning, and they managed to get my cone and spring washers in. So one week and $40 later, I have those parts. Still need to head to the Pick-N-Pull on Friday, and I can't wait to have my baby back up and driving again. We're gonna go for a nice, long drive as "celebration." :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just a quick update, if anyone is at all interested. Yesterday, Monday, I didn't get a call from the dealership. So I stopped by this morning, and they managed to get my cone and spring washers in. So one week and $40 later, I have those parts. Still need to head to the Pick-N-Pull on Friday, and I can't wait to have my baby back up and driving again. We're gonna go for a nice, long drive as "celebration." :-p Celebration? Or a beating so it still knows whos boss? haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ofeargall Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Still need to head to the Pick-N-Pull on Friday Thanks for this running post. I've got the same problem except I caught mine before it completely stripped out the hub. My cone washer was toast and I got the dealership to order a new spring and cone for the one side. I'm also headed to the pick-n-pull today or tomorrow for a new (used) hub. They've got a 91 loyale. I'm driving an 89 wagon. They say it's a fit... I'm hoping they're right. Let me know what they charge you on that hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 the years are right, but make sure you verify what axles it takes. I dont know off hand but they had different axles for some cars so the splines may be different. I think it was either autos, or turbos or something that were the odd part out. you can search it out on the site here. I think the last hub I priced at a yard was around $20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) I managed to pull a hub off the '91 Loyale and the '86 GL-10 that they had there. Although it wasn't until I got home right now that I remembered about the difference in splines. Both the wagons they have there are turbos and automatics. My car is a non-turbo and a manual. I just got home and started to replace the hubs when I thought of this. Luckily my passenger side hub hasn't stripped, so I don't need to replace that. But after doing a quick test, both the GL-10 and the Loyale hub fit on my car. Not sure if there are a difference in splines, but they seem to fit. I'm gonna go ahead and leave the original passenger side hub on though, and probably will return one of the others. They charged me $10 for each hub, even though I think they're supposed to charge $20. Also, as you can see, I snagged the sun visors off the GL-10. :-p I didn't want to leave with just the hubs, but since both cars were turbo automatics, there wasn't much I could pull off. The interior of the GL-10 kinda matched the color of my Loyale, so I decided to pull off the sun visors. The GL-10 visors have mirrors, whereas the Loyales don't. My carpool in the morning likes to check her hair every now and again, so I guess that's why I got them. :-p Not an exact match though, since Loyale visors are a little longer, so the GL-10 ones don't clip on. But oh well. Why am I talking about the visors again? :-p Edited November 2, 2012 by jj421 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Alrighty, my Loyale is back up and driving. Kinda weird jumping into a Loyale after driving a Mustang for two weeks, but at the same time, it's nice. I miss everything about my car. The sound of the engine, shifting through the gears, the increased visibility of the road over the Mustang, the slow acceleration, the crappy speakers, the speedometer reading 2 MPH faster than you're going, the turn signal clicking, the check engine light always on in the corner of your view, the mushy brake pedal, the cracked windshield, etc. :-p The only thing I don't miss is the squeking/grinding/noises that the cone washer was making. Was. It's so nice to be back in my car. Now, back to saving up for a new clutch. I wash hoping to pick up an IACV at the Pick-N-Pull, but I guess I'll have to wait for more wagons to show up. Other than that, I don't think, and I hope my car will not need anything else replaced. Unless something random happens, I haven't noticed any other problems. Also, with the brakes, yeah, it was just dirt/mud, like I expected. I noticed one of the wagons at the Pick-N-Pull (that's getting annoying to type out, haha) had crap on its rotor as well. I noticed nothing wrong with the brakes when I went out for my test drive. No worries there. Although I do need to bleed my brakes. And would like to do a rear disc conversion. But that'll come after the new clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ofeargall Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 the years are right, but make sure you verify what axles it takes. I dont know off hand but they had different axles for some cars so the splines may be different. I think it was either autos, or turbos or something that were the odd part out. you can search it out on the site here. I think the last hub I priced at a yard was around $20. The car I pulled the hub from this morning was a 91 Loyale, non-turbo, manual and everything fit perfectly. $10 with my old hub as the core. Pretty successful day! I also drained out my tranny. Good Lord did that stuff look and smell bad. No wonder I can't shift into second gear first thing in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor pole Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 the spline difference is on the transmission side. turbo trans(manual or auto) = 25 spline naturally aspirated trans (manual or auto) = 23 spline the outer splines are the same. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj421 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 the spline difference is on the transmission side.turbo trans(manual or auto) = 25 spline naturally aspirated trans (manual or auto) = 23 spline the outer splines are the same. Ben Yeah, I knew one side changed from transmission to transmission. Just wasn't sure which one. I thought it was the outer, but I guess it makes sense that it's the inner side, because that's where the transmission is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rae houghton Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Can I ask a question here.? The flat washer that pushes against the cone washer....does it matter which side is facing the engine and the castellated nut? I recall reading somewhere that it had convex and concave sides....(But I didn't see that yesterday, and the washer got flipped and I didn't know which side was which when putting it back on. ) thanks Rae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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